If you are around people a lot or are on social media you will see many people are ready to argue in order to prove their way of thinking, especially in regard to spiritual matters.
Some atheists complain about christians believing in a fairy in the sky, some people get mad over the transgender debate, gays are treated like second-class citizens and some of them are hateful toward christians. Many christians fight with other christians and some can be very judgmental and condemning of atheists and the LGBT community. It seems each group is trying to prove why they are right and the other group is wrong and many times they do it in ways that are not so nice.
Why do so many people spend so much time arguing and defending personal views when we cannot prove any of it? Seriously, none of us can prove beyond a doubt our thoughts and views on spiritual things or life after death. We cannot prove God exists and we cannot prove he does not exist. There are so many varying doctrines, interpretations of the bible and denominations among christianity that it is not surprising we do not know who is right or wrong?
If we really think about it no matter what your religion, what your faith or belief, what your lifestyle, if you are atheist, christian, gay, agnostic, transgender, if you have a scientific view or creationist view none of us can prove our way of thought in regard to spiritual matters. It is our personal view and it is good to have those views but we should not be trying to prove our way and push it onto others expecting them to see things our way.
Each group is passionate about the way they see things and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is expecting everyone to agree and go along with our way of thinking.
We are not all going to agree on things, yet we should be able to be accepting of others. Being accepting does not mean we always agree with one another or approve of everything people do, but we should be able to be kind and show respect for everyone even in our differences. Being judgmental, condemning, or poking fun at one another is certainly not being loving and kind.
It all boils down to no matter what route we take in life, what we think about life after death, what we think about God or spiritual life, none of us can prove our way of thinking, at least not until death. Once we die, if there is life after death and I believe there is, we will know for sure at that point. Until that time we can only follow our way of thinking or believing, yet we should be respectful of others and the way they think.
Those of us who are followers of Jesus should especially be loving and kind because Christ told us to love God and love one another. He did not say we should only love those who believe like us.
When reading about Jesus in the gospels we see a person who loved people and was accepting of everyone. He did not condemn nor judge and I believe he was God in human form showing us that God loves us all.
I believe God provides grace for everyone, but he gives us all freedom to choose what to believe and whether to accept it or not. I believe we should offer the same option to our fellow human beings no matter what label we put on them.
Done with Religion 
Thank you oldschool, I appreciate that.
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I understand to some degree your feelings, DWR. In that, I’ll keep my message very brief, lest anyone is offended. I’d like to invite slrman to discuss their atheism on my own blog, as I’ve written an article in which I reply to the many claims they’ve made both to myself and you. As always I wish people reading the best.
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OK, I normally do not block comments on my site. I think we all should be able to post our views and thoughts and carry on a decent, respectful dialogue with each other even when we do not agree or see things the same way. Yet in this case, I do not operate this site so people can argue and call each other names while trying to disprove one another’s views. It’s obvious you both like to debate so I suggest you do so on your own sites rather than continue to argue and use the name calling on my site. Doing so is not the reason I publish this site. I am not going to continue to publish these comments that show such anger and disrespect for one another. Feel free to carry on your debate with each other on one of these sites. https://slrman.wordpress.com/ or https://oldschoolcontemporary.wordpress.com/ . I appreciate all those who read my articles and who comment on them, but this needs to be done in a respectful way realizing we are not all going to agree. There are many different views and thoughts among us and we should be accepting and respectful to one another even in our differences.
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Paul’s letters are part of the Bible, perhaps you weren’t aware. Their writings to the Corinthians, for example. This work is both a part of the Bible and predates Mark’s Gospel.
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You stupid person. In the babble the first mention is in the gospel of Mark. I challenge you to show me even one contemporary reference op any jesus. No, do not use the Josephus . He was not even born until 36 or 37 CE. At that, his referenced to a jesus are strongly suspected of being forgeries. Theists have never had a problem with lying, as you have shown.
Now, please go away. I certainly am, you always ignore my direct questions because you cannot answer them. Again, prove anything I have posted is not true.
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“Prove a single thing I have written is not true.”
Okay, you’ve written: “The first mention of any jesus in is the gospel of Mark written from 40 to 100 years after the alleged events.” Now, that’s untrue. Paul’s letters predate Mark’s Gospel. Have I gotten your attention yet, liar? Of course, that’s not to write you’re a liar with regards to your comments about Mark, I’d imagine that’s just you being ignorant.
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You evaded every question I have asked. Instead you attacked me personally. Your response tells me that you are a coward, mentally and morally as well as a liar and a fool. No. don’t complain, I am only observing your behavior as you have demonstrated it in your posts. Prove a single thing I have written is not true.
You theists always whine and complain (persecution!” whenever you are treated as you treat others.
Don’t bother replying, I will neither respond not even read anything else from a person that has demonstrated your behavior.
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You believe whether or not the Bible is “inerrant” has been called into question by your refusal to read the relevant material in context? Are you stupid because I’m not reading your messages in context? Since you write “Are you saying that your god is so stupid he cannot be trusted to express himself clearly?” Now, rather than read your quoted words in light of what you’ve actually intended, I’m instead going to insist your words mean you’re propositioning DWR in an intimate manner. Perhaps you’re of the mind to disagree, perhaps you’re of the mind to write that’s an inappropriate way in which to interoperate your words, well, are you so stupid, so untrustworthy, as to not be able to communicate your message properly? Obviously my reading into your words things which aren’t there reflects badly upon you, you and not me.
To read Matthew rightly, in context, as its original author and speaker intended, that can be properly done by reading the nearby material, in addition to other methods of good hermeneutics, and that’s not merely true insofar as Bible studies are concerned, rather that’s true for simply reading online messages or cards wishing you a happy birthday (you’ve got to read in context).
Before jumping into Matthew 10:34, let’s read together Matthew 10:16-20: “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.”
The above, which is in context to be read as prophetic, plainly reads as both referring to wrongful imprisonment, martyrdom (Acts 7:59), and judicial murder (2 Timothy 4 6-8). Christ even goes so far as to teach in the very same chapter “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Therefore we’re reading absolutely nothing to do with either Jesus or Their followers using swords, behaving violently or subjecting anyone (in fact the opposite would be true). Are you insulting God as an inappropriate communicating because you refuse to read properly?
You’ve shared afterwards “I have noticed that such “interpretations” always change the selection to mean exactly what the interpreter wants it to mean.” Yet, that’s only true with regards to you! You’ve ripped Matthew to pieces in order to make Jesus appear violent in the eyes of the unwitting, you’ve misread Scripture so to make Jesus appear how you’d prefer Him to appear, you’ve changed clear sections of Bible text so to make its message appear how that you’d prefer. You’ve then wrote “They they wonder why christians are so often subjected to mockery and disdain.” I however don’t wonder, they’re subjected to mockery and disdain because of liars such as yourself, they’re subject to mockery and ridicule because you, you who have the nerve to write of stupidity and dishonesty, yet refuse read books you dislike in context. You’ve twisted Matthew and Jesus’ message, in which Christ taught “Put your sword back in its place, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”
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I appreciate your views and opinion, yet what I write is my opinion and what I believe to be true. Although I do not block comments on my site, I do not get into back and forth debates. So again, thank you for your comments and for taking the time to read the articles of someone whose views are different than yours.
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“By faith?” Faith is accepting as true something for which there is no supporting evidence and maybe much evidence against it.
There is zero evidence for any god nor for any jesus. “Love god?” Why? The god of the bible endorses, even orders, genocide, human sacrifice, torture of animals. and the denigration of women. If you also support those things, maybe you do love god.
This is the god that destroyed (according to the babble) 99% of all life on earth supposedly because some humans displeased him for doing exactly as he created them and knew they wold do. What did the animals and plants do to deserve this destruction? A loving god? not hardly, an immature, jealous (by his own admission) vengeful, demonic jerk. Luckily, there is no evidence that this god is anything but the invention of some egotists who want to control the thoughts, actions and speech of everyone else.
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I agree. We cannot prove anything spiritual. It is only by faith. I choose to have faith in God and in Jesus. Follow Jesus example we are only to love God and love one another. We do not need all the judgment and condemnation and we do not need to force our views or faith on anyone. We can each choose what we believe and how to live. Thanks again for your comment.
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Sorry, but many christians do insist that the bible is the inerrant word of god. If you say that it can be flawed by the errors of any, you are saying that none of it can be trusted.
That would easily explain the the contradictions (many), impossibilities, (Most) and the absurdities to be found. It would be better to dispose of this unreliable source and return to basics, of do good, and the only real sin is hurting someone else unnecessarily.
As it is, even the existence of your jesus cannot be proved. Show us even one contemporary example. Even the bible cannot. The first mention of any jesus in is the gospel of Mark written from 40 to 100 years after the alleged events. Often cited is Josephus, who was not even born until 36 or 37 CE. The text attributed to him have been denounced as forgeries.
Yes, better to stick to the simple logic of it is better to be good to people, tell the truth and avoid hurting someone when it is not required by circumstances such as self-defense.
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The bible, inspired by God but written by men is not inerrant. It tells men’s views and leads us to God, but anything man has anything to do with will be flawed. Thanks for commenting.
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Christians say they believe the bible is “the inerrant word of god”. When someone shows that a passage that disputes their basic message, such as Matthew 10:34, they insist that it must be “correctly interpreted.” Are you saying that your god is so stupid he cannot be trusted to express himself clearly? That only “correct interpretation” by mere humans can be the truth.
I have noticed that such “interpretations” always change the selection to mean exactly what the interpreter wants it to mean. They they wonder why christians are so often subjected to mockery and disdain. Your “interpretations are insulting. They assume that others are as gullible as you need them to be. You either believe the bible is the inerrant word of god or that it is nonsense. To be taken even semi-seriously, you will have to choose.
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Thank you for the comment oldschool
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Household division, slrman, has very little to do with Jesus’ desire for people, and much more to do with the nation’s reaction to Christ’s true identity as Israel’s anointed king. To make an end of His people being found guilty of sin, thus preparing to usher in an age of unending peace and forgiveness, that would earn an individual no less than to be named “prince of peace.”
To be honest, and speak Their reason for ministering, doesn’t mean Christ Himself is culpable for how angrily an unruly nation of people in rebellion against God might respond. To attempt to undermine someone’s peaceful character because They rightly discern how Their good would cause others to respond by evil would be akin to badmouthing someone as violent because they’ve decided to testify in court against the mob. To say to an upright man who’s willing to testify against evil: “hay ho, someone might get shot, shows how peaceful you are.” that’s just nonsensical. Would you not agree?
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Good point Heather. Thanks.
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People have to remember that Jehovah God has blessed all of us with the gift of free will. We have the opportunity to believe whatever we want and no one knows that better than God. Which is why Jesus has stressed the importance of love. We’re even told to love our enemies (Matthew 5:44-47). If God makes it rain on the righteous and the unrighteous He’s showing us that people will have different beliefs but we can’t treat people any differently because of those beliefs.
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Thanks for your comment. I appreciate you taking the time to read and comment on my article.
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Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
“Prince of peace?” I don’t think so.
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I agree, there are many of us out there but usually we hear more from the intolerant. Jesus showed acceptance and love and as his followers we are to do the same.
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The main reason I comment on the high-hostility blogs (such as ‘Christians vs. LGBTQ’ discussions on Patheos) is to show the honest truth-seeker that not all Christians are intolerant bigots. Of course I get flak for that, but only from the said bigots 😉
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Thanks Rick, good comment.
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Good article and excellent points. We should not argue. We should never disrespect others.
For the Christian, we are commanded to share the gospel in a loving and respectful way whether anyone ever believes us or not.
Cool thing is, God even leads some of them to believe though we are only messengers.
Acts 16:31
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.
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It is sad. Pushing for government laws to uphold a groups views. We should not be forcing any particular groups views on anyone. I do like the dog/cat analogy.
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Which is all well and good, but now people are defending their views so actively that they are pushing for laws that defend their rights, including the ability to push their views on others. This is seen from oth sides of the argument too. It’s one thing to let sleeping dogs lie. It’s quite another to require everyone have a dog, even if they’re a cat person.
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Thanks Steve. I’ve read the book, very good.
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Thanks jem.
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Christ can’t be proven by reason, but He can be experienced in a Christ-led support group based on 1 Corinthians 14:26 (what the Greek New Testament calls an ekklesia). Check out “Beyond Church: An Invitation To Experience The Lost Word Of The Bible–Ekklesia” @ http://amzn.to/2cFlEIu
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The whole reason that we enjoy (mostly, anyway!) reading other folks blogs as they explore faith, the world, and their beliefs, is because at the base, as you say, we don’t know and cannot prove, but must go with our core beliefs and we seek confirmation of those from others like-minded. I love what Peter Enns has to say on this. He published a book called The Sin of Certainty” which examines our penchant to defend our faith hotly regardless. And I love what you say here: that we should respect and love each other as we seek.
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I agree that as christians we have the witness of the Spirit within us. There are many things that prove God to us, but these things do not prove anything to those outside christianity. I agree that as christians arguing our point and seeking out like-minded people to support us could easily be due to insecurities. I also agree that like-minded people cannot be trusted to stand with us. Trust cannot be put in people but only in God. I am not sure those outside the christian belief are acting out of insecurities as some just do not accept there is a God. Therefore are they acting out of insecurity, or ignorance or because they truly believe they are right? And don’t worry, you don’t have to duck or run lol.
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I just can’t win, lol.
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So, you agree?!? (Grinning, ducking and running!) 😉
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I think you are wrong! 😄
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Thanks Jack, good comment.
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Well, I think the Holy Spirit is the prover … He certainly proved it to Ananias and Sapphira, and Paul …
As for people – I think the need to argue and prove a point – more specifically – to persuade others to their way of thinking, is rooted in insecurity. Absent knowledge of security in the Lord, people look for security from other people. It’s the reason people go to church – because there’s comfort in being surrounded by like-minded people – even when they’re wrong and misguided.
Like it says “wide is the path that leads to destruction” … that false sense of security people get from surrounding themselves with similarly opined / believing people, is the very wide path that leads to destruction. “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end, it leads to death”. Let’s join arms and skip-to-my-lou all the way to the kingdom! That’s a recipe for destruction.
In the end, we all have to enter in by the narrow gate – narrow is the path that leads to life – AND FEW FIND IT! By definition, a narrow path and narrow gate, must be traveled and entered, SINGLE file.
All those people we gather unto ourselves because they agree with us? Not one will stand with us before the Lord. Accordingly, I’d rather go it alone with confidence in the Lord and His approval, than surround myself with a bunch of like-minded like-ignorant people who agree with me.
Oh, another scripture comes to mind: “Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies (smothers you with) kisses”.
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