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Why Don’t We Want To Call Ourselves A Christian Nation (Christian Nationalism)?

Posted in christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , on May 5, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

The Founders of America referred to God/Creator in the Declaration of Independence. They also referred to the “Laws of Nature.” The Founders fled to have freedom from Government control or tyranny, so they certainly would advocate for freedom of religious beliefs or that atheists shouldn’t be discriminated against. Christians leaders and others are often falsely accused of forcing beliefs on others by declaring their Christian heritage, but Christians aren’t always careful in their language. Declaring we are a Christian nation implies lack of freedom in religious beliefs.

A Christian label doesn’t respect God’s freedom of belief 

The presence of so much evil in the world suggests God has given us freedom to choose from the beginning. God understood forced love is an oxymoron. Without freedom we could accuse God of not creating the very best world where only true, authentic relationships can develop. It may be suggested that God eventually gets you by lighting infidels on fire and not allowing it to burn out in the afterlife. Christians must reject such a view of Hell. Now, when one meets their Creator and rejects living a loving/godly life, I can see them being allowed to pass into final death. I wrote here that Hell (a place of forever punishment) is doubtful biblically and morally from a loving God.

Even Jesus didn’t advocate for a Christian nation 

Most Christians argue that to understand Jesus is to understand God. Jesus didn’t attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire to establish a “Christian” nation. Jesus came to influence others to love as they want to be loved. Jesus spoke how to start living here on earth, not what awaited in the afterlife, when asked how to have eternal life. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk10:25-37). Jesus knew loving God led to loving your neighbor. If one is so inclined, they can ask for God’s help in living a meaningful life here on earth.

Christians often assume truth only comes from a Book 

How can there be a Christian nation if Christians disagree what such a worldview is? Christian leaders of companies or religious institutes often claim they are guided or adhere to biblical principles. This implies biblical understandings are agreed upon by all who follow the Bible, and non-followers have less than ideal morals. Ancient literature subject to human interpretation cannot be the definitive word on truth. Besides, it can’t be proven one’s God inspired all written down about God in their cherished book. I’m not convinced the writers always understood God perfectly. See here.

Good and evil has arisen because of how the Bible or other religious Books have been interpreted or viewed. Biblical scholars who respect Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible teaches about many moral values – women rights, gay condemnation, and the afterlife.  See here.  See here.  See here.  Some Religions’ Books are interpreted that God authorizes killing infidels in this life, not just suffer consequences in the afterlife. Again, it can’t be proven Prophets always understood God correctly. Common moral sense isn’t the enemy! 

Where do our rights come from – who’s on Top? 

If one’s Creator exist and is perfectly loving, natural law and God’s laws should be one and the same. Moral values are not determined by a Book, popular opinion, or by a few in power. There are universal values that most rational people agree on such as murder, stealing, equal rights for all, etc. We may disagree what should be the punishment for breaking certain laws. That must be debated openly. Most religions agree the overriding moral guide is to love others like you want to be treated. Belief or lack of belief in God doesn’t give you an excuse to not treat others like you want to be treated. Perfect rights or laws demonstrate loving others like we want to be love. Even atheists would agree.

We don’t all agree what the most loving actions are. It is a bit naïve for any nation to claim our values must be biblically based, as if all agree what the Bible says about abortion, gays, capital punishment, etc. The equal rights of women with men in many Nations are denied because of a Book. Regardless of your faith, most rational beings agree on many universal moral values (murder, stealing).  And no – climate control, immigration, taxes, health care, are not universal laws. The problem in the U.S. is debate is frowned up and attempts are made to censor contrary opinions.  

Is there a Nation we could all agree on? 

We are neither a God or godless nation. Censoring belief in God or unbelief in God is all the same. If suggested God is not above all, then neither is State/Government on top as a god. An ideal nation is surely free to believe in a Creator or not believe in a Creator. Christian politicians often claim or imply our rights are given by God. We can attempt to avoid accusations of Christian nationalism by clarifying our beliefs are personal not universal. Self-evident rights may be found in a Book or natural law, as we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No rational being argues sexual abuse isn’t evil. Freedom of beliefs is our foundation to decide democratically the more caring action in policy.

I believe the Declaration of Independence and Constitution makes the U.S. unique from most other countries. We all have “unalienable rights” and not rights according to Government, Dictators or one’s understanding of a perfect, loving God. In our Republic, the Government is limited in taking away certain rights of the people. A true Democracy allows representation through voting, though the Constitution and Bill of Rights safeguard individual rights such as freedom of speech – protection from majority power over the minority. A true debate of differing opinions is out best chance at arriving at the most caring decision for all concerned. Until we all ask ourselves “am I acting toward others like I want to be treated,” we seem destined to fail.

Why Don’t We Want To Call Ourselves A Christian Nation (Christian Nationalism)?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Politics and the Christian Life

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Community, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , on September 27, 2023|

by Jim Gordon

With political activity starting to ramp up in the United States, and with all the various issues and events in politics today, you may wonder if Christianity and politics can actually exist together. It seems that Jesus really had no real interest in the political system of his day, yet he also did not condemn it. He said to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s.

In our day and age politics can be a powerful thing and many people find it extremely important. No matter what country you live in, it is controlled by a political party in one way or another. Many countries, like the United States participate in free elections and others are under more of an authoritarian rule. Either way, we humans are all under some type of political influence and control.

I have found that from a Christian viewpoint it seems many Christian people in the United States feel that if you are a Christian you have to be a republican. Actually, there are many Christian people who are democrats as well as republicans, independents and a few other political views. Personally, the way I feel about politics, I really do not care which political party a person belongs too. Unfortunately, I really do not see much of the ways of Jesus in either of our main political parties. It seems politicians are more concerned with political power and financial gain rather than on serving the people and making things better for all.

When I vote, I try to vote for the person I feel will do that best job for the most people and I do not worry which political party they belong too. I know there are many politicians who are of the Christian faith, yet there are also many who only use Christianity to get more votes. The main point is, whether Christian or not, we need people who are willing to work together and serve the people of the country in the best way possible.

Truthfully, being a Christian has nothing to do with a political party. Those of us who are followers of Christ live every day by our faith which involves every aspect of living. Our faith in God is not a Sunday only thing or a political thing. Many people seem to think they have a spiritual life on Sunday and a secular and political life the rest of the week. Yet the truth is, as Christians we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we walk with the Spirit of God each and every day. Everything we do can be considered spiritual because God is within us all the time.

Many people seem to think we can use political power to force our Christian values on everyone. Christian Nationalism *(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_nationalism)* and Dominionism *(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology)* are trying to take more control. Some want to declare the United States a Christian nation and rule it by Christian people according to their interpretation of biblical rule. Although these two movements are not necessarily republican or democrat, if politicians accept and back them, they can make it more likely these movements will take over. I for one do not believe we should or can legislate Christian values and morality on anyone. God does not force his love and ways on us, so why should we try to force our values and beliefs on others.

True religious freedom is for all people to be able to choose which religion they want to accept and follow, and also have the freedom to choose no religion at all. Obviously, in the United States there are a wide variety of religions and beliefs, and everyone should have the freedom to chose what they want to believe and follow.

Jesus was obviously more interested in speaking and teaching about the kingdom he was a part of, the Kingdom of Heaven. He was not nearly as worried or concerned about worldly kingdoms or political powers. His is a kingdom of loving one another.

I would love to see people stop bringing Christianity down to political purposes. Focus on Christ and loving others no matter which political party they endorse, if any. Politics is not the answer and is not worth all the fighting and arguing. Loving God and loving one another is a much more important and meaningful way of life no matter what political views are involved.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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Can We Stop Saying Our Rights As A Nation Come from God

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , on October 16, 2022|

By Mike Edwards

Polls suggest a majority of people believe there is a God or Higher Power, but we should be careful in our words assuming all have such a belief. Besides, many believe in a God but don’t agree what rights a God may bestow such as for gays. I cringe when those in the public arena claim our inalienable rights come from God. I find such a statement disrespectable to those who aren’t convinced there is a God. Even God respects one right to believe or not.

Not even the God of the Bible demands belief

If we didn’t have a Bible, we wouldn’t expect a loving God to force beliefs on others. Parents bring children into the world hoping their children freely reciprocate their love for authentic relationships. Evil clearly exists today but God doesn’t annihilate immediately those who oppose God. God doesn’t demand belief but desires a relationship. And scholars don’t agree the Bible teaches a literal Hell as an eventual consequence for unbelief. Some biblical scholars believe the Bible reveals all when meeting God, if God exists, will be convinced their Creator is loving and desire to live for eternity with God. Circumstances here on earth may prevent such belief.

Do our rights come from man or government? 

I am opposed to politicians not being more careful in their language that implies or assumes all must believe in God to be on the straight and narrow. It is said we need to get back to biblical values but not all agree what those values are. Similarly, those who claim man or government give us our rights is just another version of required religion. We do not need to proclaim to all that our rights are given by God or Government.

Where do our rights come from? 

We all should have the freedom to establish our own beliefs. But there are universal self-evident truths. Even terrorists believe in the golden rule in relationships for themselves. They can deny your rights due to your beliefs but don’t dare deny their rights to their own beliefs. Self-evident rights may be discovered in a Book or natural law, as we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No rational being argues for the right to sexually abuse or murder others. We can though debate what climate or immigration policies are for the greater good. A democratic society best allows making policy decisions that impact more than the individual.

How do we communicate our rights? 

We can share our personal beliefs in God and other matters in the public arena without imposing them on others. I am convinced that is how politicians must communicate who choose to represent all their constituents. They may share their personal beliefs but not communicate to imply God commanded a new world order. Don’t assume all believe in God. Determine what are self-evident truths and those that aren’t such as climate control or immigration policy. Fortunately, in a democratic society non-self-evident, beliefs are determined by vote. In other societies, those in power determine policy.

Can We Stop Saying “Everything Happens For A Reason”!

Can We Stop Saying “Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin”!

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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The Kingdom of This World

Posted in christian living, Jesus follower, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged , , , , , on March 3, 2021|

by Jim Gordon

The political situation in the United States right now is really not the best in my opinion. Seems most every country has political issues and difficulties, but here it seems unusually different.

After one of the most different elections I can remember with all the talk of fraud, the events of the extremist’s groups and all the arguing about who is right and who is wrong, it would feel good to get back to some peace and calm in our political arena.

Politics can be very divisive. It can cause anger and hard feelings among friends and family. We want to take sides and argue our case even when it causes division among us. All the while we are arguing and losing friendships, the political party or the politician we are supporting could not care less about us.

Speaking to christians only, we know that the political system is not our answer. Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world. As followers of Christ, we are living spiritually in the Kingdom of God. For us to get caught up in the anger, hatred, divisiveness and all the arguing over political parties and politicians is really sad to see. We know that Jesus came promoting another Kingdom. It was not one of this world or like the governments of this world. Nothing wrong with supporting those who govern the country, but it is aggravating to see people fighting and rebelling because of it and putting all their faith and hope in a political party.

It is sad to hear and read about so many christian people being more concerned over who is president and which party is in control than we hear about Jesus. It seems that many in the American church system have forgotten Jesus and the Kingdom he reigns over, and are looking to human beings as the answer. They seem ready to commit their allegiance and support to another human rather than trust in God.

We also tend to forget that the USA was founded upon the principles of freedom of religion. I do not know if this is completely true or not, but there seems to be a push by some christian groups and politicians to force biblical laws and Christian ways of life on the country. I have heard of some who want to put into law what they consider to be biblical rules and force them on everyone. This is something we just cannot do. Freedom of religion means there can be no one religion forced on everyone in the country. We are all free to choose which religion, if any, we choose to follow.

As believers, we are to pray for our leaders. Not just one leader or one party but all leaders of the government. Yet we need to remember that Jesus is King, not a president or political party. Earthly politicians and political parties come and go, but as followers of Christ, we are citizens of the Kingdom of God, and it is an eternal kingdom. Let’s invest our efforts and allegiance to this Kingdom rather than spend our energy on something that is only passing.

Another good article on this topic is by Stephen Mattson and can be read by clicking this LINK:

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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