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Archive for the ‘Jesus follower’ Category

By Mike Edwards

I am writing another Post out of frustration. See here.  I am not angry. I just wish my grown kids asked my advice more about things that matter in life – how do you have a better marriage, what are key actions to parent, you can’t prove God exist so why do you care? When younger kids just need to be feed and loved. My kids are in their thirties. Maybe you as I do have a decent relationship with your kids, and I am not a control freak because of the way I was parented. I married up for sure! My kids still visit or yours may visit if we screw up less than we succeed. Maybe actions matter more than words!

Don’t judge least you be judged 

Maybe we need to look in the mirror. Okay, maybe I need to look in the mirror. How many times have I reached out to older men for relational advice. It wasn’t that I knew it all. I was in the counseling profession and thrive on hearing and sharing feelings. I can count on one hand how many times I have reached out for advice. Lately, I am focused on trying to age graceful. This getting old sucks and I probably could use some pointers. I had a person in mind and he passed away. I never reached out. I suppose there are many reasons we or our kids don’t reach out.

Would all be great if God gave advice in person?

Okay, if God already speaks to you audibly why are you bothering reading spiritual blogs? The truth is that even if God spoke to us in person, God can’t tell you if your partner won’t end up betraying you or your new job won’t end up being phased out. God joins us in an unknown future. See here.  In relationships, overzealous advice can lead to feeling controlled, thus rejecting what is best for one’s own good. The personal road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being pressured may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships. Maybe, it’s  all about the relationship, not advice, as one travel on their own journey.

Actions speak louder than words 

Influences in our life don’t have to be audible. My parents aren’t alive, but I still sense their influence – good or bad. God can’t tell us either that our decisions will work out, but I am convinced I benefit from God’s silent influence. I am convinced God influences me how to be a better partner, parent, or friend we desire to be deep down. I sense God’s encouragement to continually strive to make the best decisions I know at the time. God isn’t as hidden as we might think and it may be for our own good. Maybe that is how a parent-relationship works.

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

What we assume God is like may be why so many believe there is a God but don’t feel like they have a close relationship. We yearn for close relationships. What grown child doesn’t wish a close friendship with their parents? We don’t have a physical relationship with God, but most want God to believe in us, allow us to make our own decisions, to pull for us even when failing. Because I do the same for my children.

God must be Perfect! 

I don’t know one person, whether a church-goer or not, that doesn’t think any God worth believing in must be a perfect, loving God. Even atheists would agree if they thought a Supreme Being existed. The Bible even implies such an idea: “Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Parent is perfect” (Mt. 5:48). We still must decide what perfect love is, but God surely didn’t create us to be totally clueless.

What is perfection? 

What human relationship comes to mind how a Creator might love their creations – the employer/employee relationship, the marriage partnership, or the parent/child relationship? I believe the latter. A parent’s perfect love is the same as God’s love. God may be different than what you have heard. God’s love surely is other-directed not self-consumed. We may not always know what true love is, but we somehow know we ought to love others like we want to be loved.

Can Hell really be true? No loving person would create a place of lasting torture that serves no real purpose. Does God really condemn gays when most would tell you they can no more control being attracted to the same gender as you are to the opposite gender. Could a loving God possibly believe women should submit to husbands in ways husbands shouldn’t submit to their wives? I believe I could win that debate based on the abuse resulting from such a theology. What God’s perfection is like must be an open discussion as we seek truth.

What about the Bible? 

Something is true whether in the Bible or not. We don’t need a Bible to know we should treat others like we want to be treated. The Bible can’t be an end-all as literature has to be interpreted and many don’t agree on how God is portrayed in the same passage – even moral issues regarding gays, women, destiny of people of other religions, etc. To claim the “Bible says” is frankly a little naïve.  Besides, even if we agreed on interpretation, we can’t prove God controlled the thoughts and recording of the writers of the Bible, thus having a perfect view of what God is like.

It is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. Many of us are into God but many of us left the institutional church because claims about God’s character according to the Bible was contrary to our deepest moral intuitions. It is hard to believe in a God you can’t respect. We don’t always know what perfect love entails but we seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly or like I want to be loved? Our moral intuitions aren’t the enemy in deciding what views best described a loving God.

What about WJWD? 

It is argued, because of the challenges understanding what writers in the Old Testament claimed about God and violence, that Jesus is the final word in understanding God. Jesus claimed to be God and His moral legacy seems undeniable. But God-followers don’t always agree what Jesus taught because the Bible requires transmission, translation, and interpretation. People who love Jesus with all their heart don’t agree if Jesus would rule out war when evil is rampant and victims can be saved. We can’t know for certain by claiming What Jesus Would Do.

What is God like? 

We must stop claiming we are right according to a Book. It is better to be uncertain than wrong about God. One can’t be certain about an inaudible, invisible God. Allow open discussions what a loving God is mostly like. Choose biblical interpretations and understandings of God that don’t contradict your moral sense of a loving God. You may be right! We seem to know we ought to love others as perfectly as we can. I believe God is kind and relatable like the parent you always wished for. 

How Can We Know What God Is Like?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

 

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By Mike Edwards

This phrase is often used by Christians or God-believing people. One’s motive may be to support that God is in control, thinking “how can a God be all-powerful if not able to control everything that happens.” But perfect power is uncontrolling. A perfect God’s love can’t be all-powerful. See here.  A God who supposedly can stop suffering but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child suffer.

A controlling God leads to believing God chooses or allows everything

It is only logical to suggest that if God is all-controlling, God is responsible for everything good as well as bad that happens. Is every rape, every family member murdered, every person who has experienced evil at the hands of others because God allowed it to happen. If God allows something to happen, that means God could have stopped evil but choose not to. What loving parent or God would do that! We must think more carefully about what we mean by God is all-powerful.

A controlling God leads to wondering what God is trying to teach us

It is hard enough believing a good God would allow a child to be sexually abused for some greater reason. A surgeon may have to break open your chest to save your life, but what purpose is served from rape, torture, betrayal, murder, deception, corruption, incest, and genocide as if part of some grand plan? From this twisted perspective, evil is good! A woman desperately desires to have a child all her life. She can’t at first but a miracle supposedly happens. But then nine months later the child is stillborn. God is supposedly wanting to teach her something; yet, God never communicates the lesson. No wonder people loss faith in God with such advice.

What if God isn’t in control?

Evil and suffering in the world may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly without being controlling. God can’t interfere in suffering without human help. Imagine what God could do if an entire world sought God’s guidance! God creating such freedom makes it possible for true, authentic relationships to develop. Forced love is an oxymoron. God has to be true to their loving nature. God is always doing all they can to stop suffering with the help of others.

But what hope is there if God won’t eventually control the battle against evil? 

If God cannot control and be loving, the logical question is how can we hope that God and goodness eventually win out. Many Christians believe the Bible teaches that God will one day come down to earth and wipe out evil. But such end-times spoken of in the Bible may refer to times only in the first century, not suggesting the earth as we know it coming to an end. See here.  Another possibility is that one day we may all meet our Creator, after life here on earth, to discuss our afterlife. Many may freely choose to live a life under God’s guidance. Freedom here on earth may be the necessary first step to prepare for such a decision. Jesus suggested what life lived here on earth best prepares us for such a decision.

Consequences Thinking “Everything Happen For A Reason” By A Controlling God!

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Jim Gordon

It seems most of us Christian people are quick to say we are accepting of others. Yet, we often find that we are only accepting of those who believe the same way we do.

If we meet someone from a different faith, different nationality, different political party, we would rather argue with them and defend our way of thought just to prove they are wrong or unworthy of our acceptance.

When looking at the way Jesus lived, we see a life of loving others and accepting those who the religious crowd did not like. He was kind, loving, forgiving and caring to all he came in contact. It seemed his main conflicts came from the religious self-righteous leaders.

Jesus walked with the prostitutes, the demon possessed, the heathen, tax collectors and people who the religious crowd felt they should stay away from. Today we seem to think we have to stay away from those who are different or doing things we disapprove of to prove how righteous we are. We never see Jesus doing such things. He enjoyed spending time with people from all walks of life. He got in trouble with the religious people of his day for living this way, and we find this still happens today when we accept people just the way they are.

Rather than being judgmental and unaccepting, we should be kind, accepting and sharing the love of God to everyone we meet. After all, we are not called to point out the sins of others and say what is and what is not sin. We are called to love God and love one another.

Jesus never said to separate from people. He said to go into all the world and preach the gospel. The gospel is the good news that we are loved and accepted by God. We can do this by living a life of love, acceptance and allowing the love of God to touch people right where they are.

It seems to me rather than fight and argue over doctrine, interpretation and belief we would do better to love, accept and show compassion. This certainly does not mean we have to agree with everyone, but we do not have to be unaccepting nor always defend our way of thinking.

Many of us think we have it all figured out and our way of faith is the only way. We think we have to persuade others to come to our way of thinking or they are doomed to hell. As we grow in the Spirit, we come to see that some of our interpretations and beliefs were wrong, so why should we tell others what is right and wrong and tell them how they should believe? This should be something between the individual and the Spirit within.

I am not sure any of us have it all figured out, in fact I know none of us do. We all have room to question, learn and change. I know my wife and I are doing more questioning than we ever did and we are finding new truths as we walk daily in the Spirit.

When it comes down to it, we should be open to accept others no matter what their way of thinking. People want to be loved and accepted, they want to be happy and get along with others. When we get all religious and defend our point of view it does more harm and drives people apart more than anything.

My wife and I have been asking God for strength to accept and love everyone. No matter what they believe, no matter what their faith or doctrine, no matter their religion, nationality, sexual preference or color, we want to see them as Jesus sees them. This is a type of love we cannot do on our own. It is only possible by the love of God within us. We want to love, accept and care for people. Naturally we will not always agree, but we want to look past those areas and love them in Christ. We feel this is the way that others will come to see the love of God, not through unacceptance, not through condemnation, not by trying to prove we are right and they are wrong, but by accepting them and loving them with a godly love.

Love does not mean seeing eye-to-eye, it does not mean we agree or always like some of the things people do, but it does mean we look past the differences and love them as Christ loves them. We see them as human beings equally deserving of love, respect and acceptance.

Let’s try to look past the labels and see people who have feelings, who want love and friendship, people we can get to know, learn from, share thoughts and ideas and accept as human beings who were created in the image of God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

One may claim God is all-powerful or Omnipotent to show respect toward God. But perfect power is uncontrolling.  A perfect God’s love can’t be controlling. How can a God be all-powerful if not able to control everything that happens? Our understanding of God’s power matters. A God who supposedly can stop suffering but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child suffer. 

God can’t be all-powerful! 

Thomas Oord in his new book defends ably that the Bible doesn’t necessarily claim God is all-powerful and can do anything. See here. God can’t tempt others (Jas. 1:13). God can’t lie or be unloving. In Chapter 2 Oord gives many great examples where we must be more careful claiming God is all-powerful or can do anything. We all have heard examples such as God’s can’t make a married bachelor, or God can’t make a round square. God can’t make one believe or freedom would be a farce. It makes no sense to say God can exert all power and creatures can exert some power. Oord points out that “qualified omnipotence is an oxymoron.” Thankfully, there are limits when we think of God’s power. 

God can’t be responsible for evil

I have never understood why God doesn’t stop evil if God can do anything.  If “everything happens for a reason” because of God, this would make God responsible for all goodness and all evil. It is claimed a mystery how God can cause or allow evil but not be evil. This isn’t true for humans. Some claim all evil eventually leads to good as if some grand plan by God. Hardly! Ask sexual abuse victims or family members of murdered victims.

Perfect love isn’t controlling. Ask any adult child. Evil and suffering in the world may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly without being controlling. Such freedom by God is necessary for authentic relationships to develop. Forced love is an oxymoron. God is surely doing all they can to stop suffering with the help of others. It isn’t that God had the power to do something about it, but chose not to; it’s that God can’t. Divine love limits divine power.

What about prayer?

Many prayers asking for healing are obviously not answered. I doubt God is arbitrarily choosing to bless some and not others. Are miracles arbitrary? Conditions in our body may not always be right. Various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells, organs, etc. If God wouldn’t take away your human freedom, it may not be a stretch to say God has to account for natural freedom as well. Miracles can happen when God’s uncontrolling love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God surely intervenes when circumstances will allow. See here.

What can God do? 

God can be loving. The only God worth believing in or having a relationship with must be a perfect Lover. God can’t be all-powerful or controlling and be true to God’s nature. Oord says it best in his last Chapter – Omnipotence is dead, Love is alive. Oord goes on to say that so many positive elements can come from affirming a universal, divine Lover. Such a Spirit empowers, inspires, and accompanies us in our relationships with others. God knows and empathizes with us in our suffering. God obviously grieves due to all the evil in the world. God suffered when Jesus was crucified. God suggested through Jesus’ example and words what kind of life lived here on earth can make for a much grander world.

God Can’t Be All-Powerful!

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

I am convinced that God likes you. God isn’t pissed at you all the time for not abiding by God’s standards. God desperately seeks a personal relationship with us all. “Religious people sometimes speak of God as if he were just another human magistrate who seeks his own glory and requires obedience for its own sake…God wills for us the very thing we really want for ourselves, whether we know it or not…” [Thomas Talbott, The Inescapable Love Of God, p. 185]

What does the institutional church say? 

I attended a lot of different churches growing up. It seems all God thinks about is our choices to sin. If you have any of my characteristics, God isn’t exactly in love with you all the time. But why would God be like that if earthly parents don’t stop loving their kid – they hate what sin is doing to the child; they don’t hate the kid. A relationship with God, rather than an emphasis on rules and obedience, is our necessary nourishment to conquer our battle against self-centeredness. The fear of God doesn’t lead to changed hearts. When we feel a meaningful bond with our parents, we are more motivated to follow their guidance which often is in our best interest. An intimate friendship with God can transform us into the kind of person we want to be.

How do we know God is like an earthly parent? 

Surely a loving Creator would love the way we were created to love. God’s love surely is the same as supreme parents – other-directed not self-consumed. Love gets excited when we do well and make a difference in the lives of others. Love anticipates, hopes for our success, believes in us. God is pulling for us, even when failing, because I do the same for my children. We doubt God but God still loves. We are dependent on our children for intimate relationships. An all-powerful God would only give us uncontrolled freedom if seeking a partnership and friendship with us. 

But what does the Bible say? 

I am convinced God only wishes for all to consider the possibility of a loving God who desires to help you in your journey of becoming the person deep down you want to become. Loving, human parents don’t require certain beliefs from their children before hoping they will consider if they love them. Are we better lovers than God? We can’t all agree what the Bible says, even on many moral issues, but the central message about God in the Bible seems to be to strive to love others like you want to be loved. Why would God be any different toward us? 

Your view of God matters!

We know God is speaking when we hear: I love you, I forgive you; I won’t abandon you; let’s see what happens, I want what you want deep down; I am not really like who some people say I am. Do you want to believe more in God? I am not sure there is anything to lose in beginning a journey of faith if the desire is to live life with fewer regrets. Personally, the biggest reason for being a God-follower is the inspiration and encouragement I sense in striving to be a better human being. If God is real, they should be able to make their case with each individual.

What May Be The Greatest Insight /Game Changer About God?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

We all are judgmental not just Christians. Christians have less of an excuse to be judgmental. After all, we are guided by the principle of loving others as we want to be loved. Jesus certainly didn’t seem judgmental. He hung out with all kinds of people who didn’t necessarily have His same beliefs. Jesus did get His dander up with religious folks because they were misrepresenting God. Christians may be doing God a favor if questioning certain claims made about God, and they stop trying to force their beliefs on the rest of the world.

Would you naturally assume if not for your understanding of a Book that: 

  • God condemns gays though gays no more choose to be gay than straights choose to be straight
  • God prohibits women serving as pastors or priests though my wife and daughters are a lot smarter and better leaders than a whole lot of men
  • God encourages wives being more submissive to husbands which is conducive to abuse
  • God judges based on religion when the religion the majority adhere to depends where born

Even if the entire Bible is inspired by God, interpretations aren’t inspired. It seems the most loving approach would be to claim uncertainty than to be wrong. Be careful judging others according to your understanding of a Book, especially if interpretation go against your moral intuitions. 

Should Christians ever judge?

I am not suggesting we shouldn’t stand up when children or women are abused. If judgment is necessary, shouldn’t we judge one by their character rather than their color, gender, religion, or beliefs in God? It shouldn’t be in our nature to unload on others because their beliefs aren’t ours. It’s hard to know why some believe in a God and not others. Neither is hardly a personality flaw. If God is real, God surely is big enough to make their case with each individual. But it is a universal principle, except for the selfish, that we ought to treat others like we want to be treated.     

Is God really all that judgmental?

If we think God is hard to please and pissed off about sin rather than what sin is doing to us, we may stop going to God when failing. God desires perfection for our own sake but surely celebrates our victories along the way. Our image of God can dictate our actions toward others. If we believe God really created such a place as Hell see here ,we may think we should emulate God in our attempts to judge and punish. If God punishes us forever (Hell) for sins briefly while here on earth, aren’t we teaching others to fear God? Help others to consider what a loving God would really be like!

Why Are Christians So Judgmental?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Michael Donahoe

Many people talk about the problems we have in the schools today. Often we hear the reason being that God and prayer have been removed from our schools.

Actually, this could not be further from the truth. God and prayer have never been removed from our schools. As believers, the Spirit of God lives within us and is available to hear our prayer anytime, anywhere.

What has been removed from schools is a set, standardized prayer by a teacher or someone leading the whole class. And quite frankly, this type of prayer should have been removed from our schools. Our public schools are made up of children from many beliefs, many faiths and many religions. We cannot nor should we force one religion’s views on everyone.

As Christians, we believe that through the Spirit we have the presence of God with us always and we can pray anytime we feel like it. Prayer can be done silently and internally, so no one needs to be distracted or forced to listen.

God and prayer cannot be removed from any place. We just need to remember the fact that the Spirit of God is within us and available to us each and every day.

Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://myopinionblog.substack.com/

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By Mike Edwards

Christian leaders and companies use the term “biblical truths,” but these same leaders criticize those who dogmatically claim “the science says.” The truth is that it isn’t science if there isn’t debate. What we may think is science today may be updated in a year. Biblical truth, according to one’s interpretation, is also debatable. Both Christian leaders and government health officials must engage in healthy debate. Religion and science play God (Superior) in the lives of others by claiming they know the truth and we are too stupid to decide for ourselves! 

Christian leaders claim certainty concerning “biblical truths”

The Bible as literature has to be interpreted. Many claim to be certain about God according to the Bible, but biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, and hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.  Besides, even if we agreed on interpretation, we can’t prove God controlled the thoughts of the writers of the Bible in conveying a perfect view of what God was like. The Bible is still valuable as recorded history of God with the Israelites, challenging us to think about what God is really like.

Christian leaders though accuse Government officials of claiming certainty

Many Christians leaders accuse the current government Administration and health officials of misleading by maintaining their interpretation is scientific truth. They argue it isn’t science without debate. Well, it isn’t biblical truth because you say it is according to your interpretation. It is true science is fluent. Drugs are often approved initially, only to be pulled from the shelves later after causing death. It is also true we can’t prove God exist much less that our view of what God is like is correct. ‘Uncertainty” falls both ways – religion and science.

How to live in a land of uncertainty 

Certain absolutes are universal and obvious to all rational beings, whether it is found in the Bible or science.  Does anyone reading this not believe physical or sexual abuse is wrong? All agree we shouldn’t be lied to. Adultery only isn’t wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. Christian leaders must admit uncertainty in the arena of non-universal, biblical beliefs. Christian leaders then can rightly demand debate when it involves responding to a pandemic, taxes, climate change, or immigration. 

How Leaders Can Proceed

It is not right to claim certainty when you may be wrong. When universal agreement doesn’t exist, it should be obvious that one must be allowed to form their own opinions since uncertainty exists. We must stop being so damn certain of our understanding of God according to the Bible, especially when our interpretations are contrary to our moral intuitions. The central message about God in the Bible seems to be to strive to love others like you want to be love. I will debate anyone who thinks a loving God, by Jesus’ example, encourages treating others like shit. We can stop labeling those who disagree with our biblical interpretations as heretics. We can stop calling those who disagree with our views of science as conspiracists. We must fight for freedom to debate opinions!

How Christian Leaders Are Hypocrites In The “Truth” War!

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Jim Gordon

What do people think of when they hear the word Christian? With some of the discriminatory and hateful happenings recently with extreme groups who claim to be Christian and with the rise of Christian Nationalism, I feel it is getting a little confusing what the real meaning is.

My wife and I have seriously questioned whether we should continue to use the word Christian to identify us or not. Basically, it all boils down to what we mean by Christian.

If being a Christian is being part of a religion that meets in a building on a particular day and follows set doctrines based on what denomination we belong to, then no, we are not Christians. If being a Christian is considered being part of a group that follows various spiritual beliefs such as Jews, Muslims, Hindu, Baptists, Methodists, Charismatics and others, then no, we are not Christians. If being a Christian is being part of a group that is opposed to all other religions and only accepts those who believe like they do, then no, we are not Christians. If being a Christian has anything to do with religion, political power, hatred, exclusion, discrimination and such, then no, we are not Christians.

In Acts 11:26, the disciples were first called Christians by people in Antioch. They were called Christians because they were acting like Christ. The people there were calling them little Christ’s because of the way they showed the love and power of Jesus. Now, if that is what is meant by being a Christian, then we are all in.

There are many ways we can described ourselves…believers, Christ followers, disciples of Jesus, people of faith, people of the way or even Christians. Yet, the name itself does not really matter. What matters is how we live our lives. Is Christ preeminent? Are we living as one with him? Are we allowing the love of Christ to live through us, accepting others, loving others, including others and being little Christ’s to all we meet? If not, the name itself really makes no difference because we are not being like Christ.

We should not worry so much about the name we use, but by the way we live. When people see us, they should see Jesus. He lives within us and we should be known for the love we have for him and for our fellow man. We are to let Christ live through us each and every day to everyone we meet.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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