February | 2023 | Done with Religion

Archive for February, 2023

Why Do We Avoid Discussions With Those Who Have Different Beliefs?

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, religion, tagged acceptance, beliefs, christian living, Christianity, church, Love of God, religion, spirituality on February 26, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

Your experience may not be mine. I am writing out of frustration. I tend to be more skeptical than most, whether it be about religion, my profession of psychology, or now science. Over time I realized “truth” may be less certain than proclaimed. I needed to be more open-minded. When one is willing to have a calm discussion, why might we hesitate to discuss our views with others who believe differently?

Certainty, not uncertainty, is more comforting

One may not feel confident defending their beliefs. But there may be a stronger reason why we hesitate to discuss different views with others. One may believe what seems to be the popular narrative, without exploration, to avoid anxiety not knowing. Disagreeing with the popular science narrative or church leadership about God’s character can lead to isolation. When universal agreement doesn’t exist, it should be obvious that one must be allowed to form their own opinions since uncertainty exists.

What are the consequences of avoiding uncertainty?

When only one side is presented, control and power grow intentionally or unintentionally. It should be intuitive denying diverse opinions is unloving and controlling. Most don’t except such behaviors in their personal relationships. Having good intentions by believing you are right for the whole doesn’t matter if you could be wrong. Often, we determine one’s rationality based on if their beliefs are different than ours.

Is there any Truth?

Certain absolutes are universal and obvious to all rational beings. Does anyone reading this not believe physical or sexual abuse is wrong? No reasonable God or non-God person doesn’t respect the golden rule in relationships. Criminals don’t defend their murders or thefts; instead, they deny committing such crimes. Adultery only isn’t wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. We don’t debate many laws, only the decisions what is a just punishment.

How can we begin to discuss different views more openly?

I left the institutional church, but not God, because others wouldn’t engage in non-dogmatic conversations. It can provoke anxiety to imagine our beliefs may not be as certain as we once thought. We must have open discussions and avoid thinking and demanding “supposed truths.” We can stop labeling those who disagree with our biblical interpretations as heretics. We can stop calling those who disagree with our views of science or Covid vaccines as conspiracists. Imagine how different as a people we would be if religious, political, or science folks admitted “truth” is something we strive for together, not always thinking our opinions are the truth!

Why Do We Avoid Discussions With Those Who Have Different Beliefs?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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What May Be The Main Reason People Aren’t Closer To God?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged Bible, christian living, Christianity, creator, hell, religion, scriptures, spirituality on February 19, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

It is hard for many to wrap their brain around that a Supreme Being exists. Others are inclined to believe there is a Creator. I am convinced the Bible is a main reason many don’t have more of a relationship with a Creator they believe in. I wrote here other reasons people don’t pursue a closer relationship with the God they believe in. Many wouldn’t hold certain beliefs about God unless claimed true by authority figures – according to the Bible. Answers to questions according to the Bible, contrary to our moral intuitions of a loving God, may be the problem!

The Bible, Gays, and Hell

I believe there are two main beliefs claimed about God because of the Bible that drive others away from God. Many may be unaware biblical scholars who respect the Bible don’t believe Scriptures condemn gay monogamous relationships. See here. It doesn’t make moral sense why God would condemn gays when they can no more chose who they love than straights can. Ask them! Why would anyone choose to be gay based on the condemnation and bigotry they face?

One would only imagine a loving God creating a literal Hell because of one’s interpretation of a Book. A loving God wouldn’t torture anyone forever since such pain serves no lasting purpose. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for their worst enemies. Hitler tortured millions of Jews; God is said to torture billions forever. A moral God can’t be a hellish, sadistic, torturer! We can’t prove God controlled the thoughts of writers to always portray God accurately, but scholars don’t even agree that a literal Hell is a reality in the Bible. See here.

The Bible, talking snakes, and evolution

No one was there in the beginning. You don’t have to believe in magical trees and talking snakes. Those could be a literary device to discuss a relationship between God and humans. Many insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis, that Adam was a literal than representative of the first human. I can believe God did or didn’t use evolution in the creative process – humans evolved over time into a more complex form. See https://biologos.org/

The Bible and God’s violence rationalized

Many notice passages like I Sam. 15:3 where God orders: “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them: put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” If you don’t think this is morally shocking, how would you react if reading this same command in the Koran? God is said to order killing boys and non-virgin women but sparing virgins (Num. 31:18). Did God really expect young woman to watch their mothers, sisters, and brothers murdered by men who one day may expect marriage or sex? Biblical scholars are rightly questioning if the authors always depicted what God is truly like.

So, what is God really like?

Faith in God or what God is truly like isn’t much different than faith in general. We still get on an airplane, not because we know but have reason to believe it is safe. We can’t always be certain. Surely a loving Creator would love the way we were created to love. Somehow, I know what a true friend or perfect God must be like. A God worth believing in surely desires to inspire and encourage you to become the person deep down you want to become. Choose biblical interpretations and understandings of God that make moral sense, regardless of what others claim the Bible teaches. I have decided a journey of faith with such a God is worth living.

What May Be The Main Reason People Aren’t Closer To God?

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What Reasons Do We Give Others To Be Done With God?

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, Love of God, The church, tagged belief, Bible, christian living, Christianity, Love of God, religion, spirituality on February 12, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

Some are inclined to believe in a Creator and others are not. I don’t wish to judge the latter. Those who lean toward thinking there is a God, there seem to be two types of “DONES” and they are often confused. One group is not done with God, just religion or the institutional church as a place to be with God. Another DONE group may be those who once called themselves believers in God, but are now agnostic or atheist. It is this group that I am thinking of below. Why might some stop believing in God at all if inclined initially?

Drop the myth that all who stop believing in God are denying reality!

The first chapter of Romans in the Bible is used to accuse those who deny God to justify their evil ways. I suppose some deny there is a God to avoid feeling guilty for treating others like shit, but I don’t know any such people. Hopefully, you don’t think you are more enlighten or moral than others as to why you have enough faith to keep believing that an invisible, inaudible God exist. I just never discovered a reason to not believe in God, and I hope I never do. Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch or accuse those who question the reality of an invisible God as being wicked and ignorant of their feelings.

One reason to stop believing when told the Bible is contrary to our moral intuitions

It is claimed God condemns gays though who would intentionally choose a lifestyle that invites condemnation and discrimination. We are told God doesn’t want women fulfilling supposed “manly” roles though that only leads to favoritism and abuse. Men don’t need reasons for behaviors that often come naturally. We are told God is a hellish, sadistic torturer according to beliefs while here on earth, but even humans wouldn’t create such a place for their worse enemies. Many claim to be so certain about God according to the Bible, but biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, and hell, and other moral issues. See here. See here. See here

Another reason to stop believing when told God allows evil and suffering for a greater good

It is understandable why many can’t believe in a supposedly, all-powerful God who standbys while one is being raped, tortured, murder, abuse, etc. That often leads to unbelief, not deeper belief in God. What kind of parent or God stands by and not intervene when they could prevent such suffering? Maybe a perfect, loving God can’t be controlling just as they can’t be manipulative. Evil and suffering in the world may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly without human help. See here.

How do we love one another in our spiritual journeys?

Many are inclined to believe in a God, but then they are given legitimate reasons to stop believing in God. We must stop being so damn certain of our understanding of God according to the Bible, especially when our interpretations are contrary to our moral intuitions. We must stop claiming what one must believe to follow God. The central message about God in the Bible seems to be to strive to love others like you want to be love. I will debate anyone who thinks a loving God, by Jesus’ example, encourages treating others like shit. Why can’t we have open conversations while trusting God is capable of influencing each in their own spiritual journey?

What Reasons Do We Give Others To Be Done With God?

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Which Covenant Do We Follow

Posted in christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, New Covenant, tagged Bible, christian living, Christianity, Love of God, New Covenant, Old Covenant, spirituality, ten commandments on February 8, 2023|

by Jim Gordon

Did Jesus teach from the Old Covenant? Was the birth of Christ the beginning of the New Covenant? When does the Old Covenant end and the New Covenant begin? To be clear, the Old Covenant does not end with Malachi and the New Covenant does not start with Matthew.

Even though Jesus came to fulfill the Old Covenant through grace, the first thirty-three years that Jesus walked the earth He lived under the Old Covenant. He was required to follow all its rules and regulations. He even taught from those rules, yet those rules are no longer intended for us. ‘But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons’. Galatians 4:4,5

The Old Covenant ended when Jesus was crucified. When He said ‘It is finished’ He was saying the Law, the Old Covenant was fulfilled. When Jesus was resurrected the New Covenant began. We are no longer required to try and live under the Law and the way of the Old Covenant. It is finished!

Actually, the Law was never intended to be put upon those who were not Jewish. Yet, it seems many pastors taught that we were all under the Law until Christ came. Many pastors still teach that we live by grace but still need to try and follow the Law, especially the ten commandments. Funny they seem to forget about the other 603 laws that were given.

The Old Covenant was basically a tutor. A way God used to show the Jewish people that they were unable to live a perfect life on their own. It was a way to show them that they needed someone to redeem them and restore their fellowship with God. Jesus came and fulfilled the Old Covenant and upon his resurrection made a New Covenant of grace. ‘Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill’. Matthew 5:17

Now that the Law has been fulfilled in Christ, none of us are required to try to live by the ten commandments and the rules and regulations of the Old Covenant. We seem to forget that because of grace we now live by faith in Christ. We are no longer slaves to sin, we are no longer just a poor sinner saved by grace although we were sinners and we are saved by grace. We are now the righteousness of God through Christ. God no longer calls us slaves but calls us sons. We are seated in heavenly places in Christ. This is not to say that we should go out and do whatever we want. We do have freedom in Christ to do what we choose, but there are consequences if we choose things that God has warned us to stay away from. There are consequences, but there is no condemnation to those who are in Jesus.

Today we choose to live a life pleasing to God because of love. Godly love is the fulfillment of the Law. We love God and we love others, we have been made righteous through Christ and we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit who guides us, teaches us and gives us strength. We do not love or please God out of obligation. We do not love God because we are trying to fulfill a set of rules and Old Testament laws that we could not live up to anyway. We do what is pleasing to God because we choose to do so because of love.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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What Do Religion And Science Have In Common Unfortunately?

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, religion, tagged acceptance, Bible, christian living, Christianity, Love of God, religion, science, spirituality on February 5, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

Religion and science share a common sin these days – claiming they certainly know the “truth.” We have an inborn sense of good and evil. Who doesn’t know rape, sexual abuse of children, murder is immoral? Most criminals don’t defend their actions; instead, they deny committing such crimes. The truth though is we don’t know the best response for the greater good on issues such as responding to a pandemic, taxes, climate change, immigration, etc. Benefits and risks exist for most issues. Religion and science are playing God (Superior) in the lives of others by claiming they know the truth and we are too stupid to decide for ourselves!

Christians must stop hiding behind supposed biblical truth

Religious folks hide behind their interpretation of a Book as government health officials hide behind their interpretation of science. Opposing views are said to be heretical or anti-science. But even if you believe the Bible is inspired by God, the Bible requires interpretation. We don’t all agree if the Bible opposes women priests or preachers or condemns gays. See here. Scholars don’t agree that a literal Hell is a reality in the Bible. The truth is leaders must stop being so damn certain despite what anxiety or challenges that may cause themselves or others!

Certainty may help to avoid fear but is an illusion

Certainty rather than uncertainty comforts individuals psychologically. One may believe the narrative being proclaimed because unknowing can create confusion or anxiety. Disagreeing with the popular science narrative can lead to being ostracized. Disagreeing with church leadership about God’s character can lead to isolation. It doesn’t matter if those who proclaim certainty have good intentions or believe their ideas are best for society. They may be wrong! When universal agreement doesn’t exist, it should be obvious that one must be allowed to form their own opinions since uncertainty exists.

What are the consequences of avoiding uncertainty?

When only one side is presented, control and power grow intentionally or unintentionally; control and power are intoxicating and a part of human nature. These internal forces flourish when others are not allowed to discuss or debate alternative opinions in the public arena. It should be intuitive denying diverse opinions is unloving and controlling. Most don’t except such behaviors in their personal relationships. A refusal to openly discuss or defend one’s views suggests an unhealthy dependency on “certainty.” It isn’t science if there isn’t debate. The same goes for religious truths. The beauty of a free democracy is that no one person or those in control get to play God.

Our Path forward

Leaders must be empowered and held accountable to be open-minded than certain. I left the institutional church due to the sin of certainty. We can try to engage with those who insist on certainty when it doesn’t exist, but in time one may need to move on. We can stop labeling those who disagree with our biblical interpretations as heretics. We can stop calling those who disagree with our views of science as conspiracists.

Imagine how different as a people we would be if religious and political folks were open to discussions for the common goal of pursing the greater good! You want to be supported to make your own decisions freely when there is uncertainty? Respect the rights of others to do the same. A voting democratic society surely is more humane and less dangerous than an authoritarian government style.

What Do Religion And Science Have In Common Unfortunately?