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Posts Tagged ‘Bible’

by Michael Donahoe

I grew up in the traditional, organized church. I was always taught that the pastor was head of the church, and he had all the answers and so much more knowledge than anyone else in the church. I mention the pastor as a ‘he’ because when I was young and growing up in the church it was unheard of to have a woman pastor.

I remember scheduling meetings with the pastor so I could ask him questions and find out all the answers to Christian living. It almost floored me one time when I asked the pastor a question and he actually said he did not know the answer.

Looking back, I can see that I certainly looked to the pastor rather than looking to the Spirit. I was putting my hope in a man that I thought could tell me everything about God, yet I was not seeking to know God himself.

Next in line were the board of elders. Each of them were so much more holy than I or anyone else in the church or else they would not be in that position of authority. At least that is what I thought at the time. I have a friend who thinks prayers have more authority when she goes to the board of elders and has them pray.

Questioning Christian Leadership

The longer I was in the church, the more I began to wonder about things. Of course I did not dare ask the questions I had since people would be questioning my faith, or think I was questioning the pastor.

When I read that Christ was the head of His church, I wondered why the pastor seemed to get credit for that position.

I read that we should call no one father (or pastor) other than God, and I again wondered why people in position of leadership and authority in the church wanted to be called pastor or apostle or elder.

We are told that the Holy Spirit is our guide and teacher, and we do not need anyone other than him. Yet, we look to the pastor, or an elder, or some big name evangelist to find all the answers to our questions.

I began getting dissatisfied with having these questions and not letting them surface enough to come out and be asked. I began to realize I had more and more questions, and fewer and fewer answers.

I finally started coming across books and websites of people who seemed to be in the same boat. They were wondering and questioning and being open with their questions. Some of them seemed to actually come up with some answers that made sense to me.

The more I thought, questioned, and read, the more I began to realize that our traditional church system is really not what God intended for the church. I also realized that questioning is not a lack of faith. God can handle our questioning; in fact, most of the time Jesus taught more with questions than answers. He wanted people to question and reason over things.

True Christian Leadership

The true Church that Jesus is building is not a brick and mortar place. The head of the Church that Jesus is building is not a pastor, pope, elder, or apostle. In fact, the head is not a man or woman at all.

Leadership in the Church of Jesus is not what we have always thought of either. When we realize Christ is the head and leader of his Church, we begin to realize that man has no business demanding or expecting people to follow them and put them in the place of Christ.

True Christian leadership is not an office of authority. It is not a place for only a few who are specially trained at a man-made Bible school. True Christian leadership is for all of us who are members of the Church of Christ. We are all kings and priests; we are all holy and righteous because of Christ. To be clear, when I say Church of Christ, I’m not talking about any denomination or physical building. The true Church is a community of people who are following Christ, and He is our head. All the rest of us, men and women alike, are equally functioning body parts of his Church.

My Christian leadership story

No person has a place of authority over another. That is the world’s way of doing things. That is the business way of doing things. Needless to say, there are a lot of churches and religious organizations that are acting like big business with their presidents and CEO’s, but that is not how it should be.

Christian Leadership as God intended is the Spirit working through the different body parts, leading by example. They are encouragers and teachers from a place of love and experience, not a place of authority and power. Each of us are leaders at one time or another in this sense of leading by example, experience, and love. We come in contact with those who need encouragement or a little guidance, not from someone who thinks they know it all, but from someone who has been there. A person who, out of love, wants to see the best for everyone.

True Christian leaders will not demand your loyalty. They will not want your allegiance to them. They will not rule over you with authority and expect you to follow them no matter what. True leaders will want to lead you to the head and true leader of the Church, Jesus. It is time we stop looking to men and women as our guides and leaders, and look to Jesus. We need to listen for the leading, guidance, and teaching of the Holy Spirit who is actually God within us, rather than seeking the knowledge and wisdom of mere men.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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By Mike Edwards

One of my biggest regrets in my journey with God is being so damn certain when younger. I was certain evolution was false because the Bible supposedly claimed so. I was so certain Jesus’ main message was how to avoid Hell. It is never too late to change. I tried to make amends when possible, especially with my children, but unfortunately such a reputation sometimes lingers with those you are closest too. In the past I used the poor excuse that my certainty was just being passionate. I wish I had known the advantages of not coming off as a “know it all (certain).” I am responsibility for my actions, but I also had no role models who led by being open-minded.

The truth is biblical scholars aren’t certain about God and moral issues

Many claim that God tortures those forever in the afterlife if reject God here on earth, that God rejects women in leadership roles, and God condemn others for being attracted to the same gender. Who can blame others for rejecting a God contrary to our moral intuitions! One’s view of God is often based on one’s interpretation of the Bible or belief that the biblical writers understood God perfectly. We can’t prove the biblical writers were always right about God but even if the writers had perfect understanding, the Bible is subject to interpretation. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.

There are sound philosophical reasons to not be certain if God exist

We can’t be certain about God’s true character much less if God exist. Whether one believes in a God has an obvious faith component. Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch or accuse those, who question the reality of an invisible God, as being wicked and ignorant of their feelings. If wrong to doubt God exists, Christians sin if doubt God in tough times.

Some rightly can’t understand what a good God – the only God worth believing in – doesn’t intervene more in this world with evil. I have suggested a possible explanation here as espoused by biblical scholar Thomas Oord. It makes the most sense to me, but it may not satisfy you or others. People that don’t accept apologetic reasons given for God and evil are not being rebellious.  Also, why is God so hidden if God truly wants us to believe in God. There are plausible explanations but let’s not condemn those who reject any argument put forth. Save confrontations for those who say “I don’t care if there is a God. I will treat others however the hell I want to.” 

Can we be certain of anything?

Certainty is an illusion unless talking about universal moral sins such as rape or incest. Adultery isn’t only wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. I am convinced all know how a loving human should act, whether they never had a Bible (majority born in this world) or don’t believe in God. Many decisions are not black and white and require open debate. May the best, most common-sense position win. One must have the freedom to decide what is the best decision for themselves, or the powerful rule the powerless. It is common to hear one argue “The Bible says” without adding “according to my understanding.” As mentioned, the truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues.

Uncertainty can be a good thing!

Truth is often not known but to be pursued. If you find one rational person that has a difference of opinion from your own, you should consider their opinion. I don’t care if it concerns the safety of vaccines, climate solutions, whether Hell literal exist, or if God condemns gays. We often don’t recognize what doesn’t work in our personal relationships doesn’t work in the public arena either. Partners who act as if they are always right and their partner is wrong are headed toward divorce or a sucky relationship. Having good intentions by believing you are right for the whole doesn’t matter when certainty isn’t universal. Open discussions can lead to a greater good for the most. Imagine a world:

  • If we were open to defending our beliefs civilly
  • If we closely guarded one’s freedom to choose when the possibility exist you could be wrong
  • If we stopped calling those who disagreed with us heretics or conspiracists
  • If politicians encouraged open discussions to better discern together the greatest good for all
  • If Christians didn’t always claim their biblical interpretation is correct

Shouldn’t Christians Stop Being So Damn Certain!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

I don’t have any polls or mass audiences to rely on to answer this question definitely. I am convinced it is important we speculate, because how we answer this question can impact how we view and talk to others about God.  It is important for God-followers to understand there are many, many reasons why someone either rejects God or hesitate to believe in a God in the first place.

What do many Christians claim about those who reject God?

The first chapter of Romans in the Bible is used to suggest all who don’t believe in God are suppressing what they know to be true. But it seems the biblical writer assumed his audience believed in God but ignored God to justify their evil ways. Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch or accuse those, who question the reality of an invisible God, as being wicked and ignorant of their feelings. If wrong to doubt God exists, Christians sin if doubt God in tough times. We all have friends who don’t share our belief in God, but they are just as moral.

People reject God for good reason because of claims made about God 

Many claim that God tortures those forever in the afterlife if reject God here on earth, that God rejects women in leadership roles, and God condemn others for being attracted to the same gender. If I believed that, I may reject God also. Who can blame others for rejecting a God contrary to our moral intuitions! One’s view of God is often based on one’s interpretation of the Bible or belief that the biblical writers understood God perfectly. We can’t prove the biblical writers were always right about God, but even if the writers had perfect understanding the Bible is subject to interpretation. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.

Many rightly reject God for personal reasons

A child sexually abuse by their father may struggle to accept a God betrayed as our Father in Heaven. Does God really judge them? Some are open or desperately want to believe in God but can’t get their head around why a loving God doesn’t intervene more with so much evil in the world. Does God really judge them? Why would a gay person believe in a God who supposedly condemns them for sexual attractions they no more choose than straights. The truth is many aren’t rebellious but question why God is the way God-believers claim God to be like!

There are reasonable objections to not believe in God

Some rightly can’t understand what a good God – the only God worth believing in – doesn’t intervene more in this world with evil. I have suggested a possible explanation here as espoused by biblical scholar Thomas Oord. It makes the most sense to me, but it may not satisfy you or others. People that don’t accept apologetic reasons given for God and evil are not being rebellious.

Also, why is God so hidden for those who truly want to believe in God. Many may reject God because God doesn’t reveal themselves more. This isn’t rebellion; they want to believe. Let’s condemn those who say “I don’t care if there is a God. I will treat others however the hell I want to.”

How do we treat those that do or don’t believe in God?

There are many reasons why one might believe in God or not. Let’s listen to their personal journey without judging them. Personally, believing in the possibility of a God hasn’t led to perfection but has offered a moral guide in my relationships. But I know friends who are agnostic and put to shame some Christians’ treatment of others. I have a close relationship with God perhaps due to being raised in a home that focused on God. Then again, others in my situation may go a different direction because of the difficult relationship I had with my parents. Trust me – I’m no moral giant! Scholars don’t agree the Bible definitely says those who don’t believe in God in this life will be rejected by God in the afterlife. I am convinced a loving God will have a personal conversation with all in the afterlife whether to continue in the afterlife together. I suppose character pursued in this life may influence one changing their mind.   

Why Might People Reject Or Not Believe In God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Mike Edwards

It is intuitive to assume an all-powerful, almighty God has complete control. We sometimes assume God has total control when we say “why God” during suffering. It is often said that God has a plan for your life or everything happens for a reason. This implies God is responsible for tragedies in your life. I doubt that! See here what God’s plan is for your life.

God can’t be controlling

Logically, God can’t be all-controlling or all-powerful and humans have some freedom/power? Besides, controlling love is an oxymoron. Ask adult children with such parents. Even the Bible claims love does not insist on its own way (I Cor 13:5). God can’t be unloving, thus controlling sometimes. In God’s defense, it is not possible for God to create freedom unless there is the possibility of love or hate. Without freedom we could accuse God of not creating the very best world where only true, authentic relationships can develop. We must rethink if God can have unlimited control or power.   

God doesn’t plan tragedies in your life 

No, God doesn’t plan for you to be unable to have children if you desire to be a mom or dad

No, God doesn’t plan for your body to be wrecked by cancer

No, God didn’t want you sexually or physically abused as a child

No, God didn’t want your partner to leave you by wanting a divorce

No, God didn’t want your loved one murdered or severely injured in a car accident

No, God didn’t want you let go from your job

Doesn’t the Bible claim God is all-powerful?

The Bible can be used to defend or oppose believing God is all-powerful or controlling. For instance, the Bible says God changes their mind based on human decisions made. That hardly appears to be a controlling attribute. So much evil in the world surely proves a perfect, loving God can’t be in total control. If a Creator exists, surely a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. I am convinced true Godly or human love can’t be controlling.

Does God just “allows” your suffering? 

If we hold on to God simply limits their Power, this suggests God can do something but doesn’t. We must come up with a better explanation that God simply allows – thus controls – evils but doesn’t cause evils. A God who can prevent evil but doesn’t is counter-intuitive to love. No loving parent or God sits idly by when they could prevent tragedies such as rape or murder. No, all evil doesn’t eventually lead to good as if some grand plan by God! Ask sexual abuse victims or family members of murdered victims. Are we to believe God doesn’t care, God is punishing us, or God has abandoned us and left us clueless what the grand plan? God doesn’t just allow your suffering! 

The possibility of a less powerful, uncontrolling God!

The only God worth believing in must be loving. God’s nature can’t be all-powerful or controlling. In our suffering we don’t have to feel God doesn’t care or that God could do something and doesn’t. Good news – God knows and empathizes with us in our suffering. God grieves with us. God can empower, inspire, and accompany us. God can influence us to follow Jesus’ example which can make for a much grander world. God doesn’t derive pleasure by seeing us in pain but the unfortunate truth in a free world is suffering happens. Lean on God and others for emotional support and encouragement in difficult times.

Good News – God Can’t Be In Control!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

Well-meaning people use the phrases “everything happens for a reason” or “God willing.” God willing implies that God controls the good AND God controls evil. If you experience tragedy, did God not want goodness in your life. If you so desperately want to have a child, is God making you infertile for a reason? Does God really allow rape or any evil experienced for a reason? If God allows something to happen, that means God could have stopped evil but choose not to. I would struggle having a relationship with a God or human parent with that attitude.

God can’t be all-powerful and humans have freedom

Logically, God can’t be all-controlling or all-powerful and humans have some freedom/power? Besides, a perfect God’s love can’t be all-powerful. See here.  A God who supposedly can stop suffering but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child suffer. Evil and suffering in the world may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly. God can’t physically interfere in evil or suffering without human help. See here.

God can’t control the present or the future for any reason

God can’t know the future for that suggest there is a predetermined future making freedom nonsensical. God’s plan is not a detailed blueprint but a general one to set us free to love. God can’t tell you if the person you want to marry won’t end up betraying you or the job you take won’t end up being phased out. Heresy alert – God doesn’t know! God joins us in an open future. We surely have God’s blessing choosing the wisest, more loving path at the time based on past experiences, current circumstances, and future aspirations.

Can there be Good News despite lack of guarantees!

The best news is God isn’t controlling sufferings we experience in our lives. God wants us to truly feel free to pursue our own dreams without strings attached, unlike some earthly parents. God only desires to influence us to do all the good we can, in all the places we can, at all the times we can, to all the people we can, as long as we can. The future is open to God as well. God joins us in a true friendship by sharing our joys and sorrows in our journey to be the person we deep down desire to be.

A uncontrolling God can be more relatable

God loves like how you wished you loved others. God hates when prayers can’t be answered. God feels the same pain you are experiencing. God shares the dreams you have for your future.  Conventional thinkers don’t like to suggest God has feelings of vulnerability, but they don’t mind talking about God’s wrath. If God can be angry, God can be sad. God hates when we are suffering. If God truly loves, God hurts when you hurt. We may wish God would just intervene but there may be legitimate reasons why God can’t. But God is with you each step of the way as we reach out to others for help as well. Imagine what God could do if an entire world sought God’s guidance in loving others!

Can We Stop Saying Everything Happens For A Reason!

Can We Stop Saying We Know What Biblical Truths Are?

Can We Stop Saying Our Rights As A Nation Come From God?

Can We Stop Saying “Biblical Worldview”?

Can We Stop Saying “Love The Sinner, Hate The Sin”!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

I try to answer this question often in my blogs over the years. After all, I named my personal blog some 15 years ago “What God May Really Be Like.” I use the word “may” because I got tired of preachers always being certain what God is like. I recognized such an attitude because I offended enough people early on being so damn certain! I ended up leaving the institutional church because religious folks often assume their interpretation of the Bible was correct and can’t discuss differences. My moral intuitions didn’t always agree with their interpretation.

It matters what you think God is like

Our understanding of God can determine the depth of our relationship with God and how we might treat others. If God really created Hell, we may think we should emulate God in our attempts to judge and punish. If God condemns gays, we will condemn gays out of devotion to God. If we believe God thinks men have authority over women at home or in church, that will filter down to our wives, daughters, and friends and stifle their gifts. See It Matters If Your God Is Nurturing Or Authoritative!

You can’t always depend on the Bible

Some interpret the Bible to claim God condemns gays. Others who have the same respect for Scriptures interpret the Bible not condemning monogamous gay relationships. See here. Sometimes, biblical writers seem to contradict one another. Hebrews 10:26 says: “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.” But I John 1:7 says “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” So, did the Cross forgive us from our ongoing addictions, though we know we are hurting ourselves and others? Or are we screwed in God’s eyes if we continue willful behaviors after we see “the light?”

God must be perfect!

I imagine anyone who believes in a God/Creator thinks that such a Spirit must be perfectly moral. No other God is worth believing in. If you believe in a Creator, surely you assume such a perfect Creator would create us in their image? I think the best analogy to a perfect God is what a perfect Mother or Father is like. We all have a clue being a child of parents. Now, knowing perfection isn’t always black and white. Does justice for the victim’s family include capital punishment? Should I allow my child to hit bottom in their addiction or intervene. It may depend on their age I suppose. But should I allow my son to be abusive to his dates? Hell hath no fury!

Trust your moral intuitions unless . . . 

If your biblical interpretation is contra to your moral intuitions, why would God create you to intuitively feel differently? You can also assume that maybe biblical writers didn’t always understand God perfectly at the time. Do you think your God believes that you have authority over the opposite gender that they don’t have over you (I am talking to you men), please reconsider! Give me an inch and I may take a mile. We don’t always know what a perfect God would do. But a place to begin in imagining what God is like is how you believe you ought to treat others – unless you are a terrorist that relies on your interpretation of a supposed inspired Book!

How Do You Decide What God Is Really Like?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

Are you willing to admit you may be wrong in your view of God. We can all agree God hates sexual abuse. I have no doubt that God doesn’t condemn gays, even according to the Bible, but I am open to discussion if you are. Disputable beliefs have different consequences for the layperson as opposed to leaders. Livelihoods can be at stake for religious leaders if they don’t preach certain beliefs according to the expectation of denominations or people in the pews. 

One’s view of the Bible is a problem

It is assumed God approved everything written about God in the Bible. The problem is God isn’t always portrayed as loving. See here.  Even if the writers understood God perfectly, which we can’t prove, we can’t claim our interpretations are perfect. Biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t interpret/agree what the Bible says about God’s views about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. A Creator surely loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. Perfect Godly and human love must be the same. A supposed inspired Book must not replace our discussion of common moral sense given to us by our Creator.

People loving certainty is a problem

Laypeople often find comfort psychologically in certainty rather than uncertainty. One may believe the seemingly certain narrative because unknowing can create anxiety. Also, disagreeing with friends or those in leadership about God’s character can lead to conflict and loneliness due to isolation. It doesn’t matter if those who proclaim certainty have good intentions or believe their ideas are right about God. Openness is critical in case we are wrong.

Not claiming certainty can have great consequences for those in leadership positions. It is not easy changing your mind in front of people you have advised to believe something different. Laypeople often crave certainty, so less than dogmatism can lead to anxiety for the flock. Threats of job security for leadership is real if disagreeing with the popular but uncertain narrative. In politics different opinions might not lead to reelection. Pastors risk being kicked out of the pulpit.

So, are we clueless what God is like? 

A Book cannot be the sole determinate of what God is like since the same passages are subject to different interpretations. Our inborn sense of good and evil, not an ancient Book, tells us sexual abuse or murder is immoral. A Creator surely loves the way creatures intuitively think they ought to love. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly? There will be less disagreements when we don’t insist on our interpretation of a Book. People deep down know how to handle disagreements. Until we all ask ourselves “am I acting toward others like I want to be treated,” we are destined to fail and come to a solution. 

Christian leaders must recognize their hypocrisy!

I am sure I don’t always know my own hypocrisy, but I recognize hypocrisy when I see it! Many conservative Christians leaders accuse the current government Administration and health officials of misleading by maintaining their interpretation is scientific truth. It’s hard to understand the scientific truth keeping bars open but not churches during the pandemic. It used to be not science if there wasn’t debate. Well, it isn’t biblical truth because you say it is according to your interpretation. It is true science is fluent. It is also true we can’t prove God exist much less that our view of what God is like is correct. ‘Uncertainty” falls both ways – religion and science. 

Freedom of expression because of uncertainty is critical to lead forward 

Freedom of ideas are what separate democratic societies from dictatorships. Freedom is often quashed because individuals claim certainty in their beliefs. Christians leaders condemn gays in God’s name because the Bible says so, and demands others believe as they do. They don’t consider they may be wrong. See here.  Climate experts don’t agree with the narrative concerning climate change. Claiming certainty rather than defending one’s position is not how a democracy works. One must have the freedom to make their own decisions when there is uncertainty. Religion and science are playing God (Superior) in the lives of others by claiming they know the truth and we are too stupid to decide for ourselves!

What is a religious leader to do?

When universal agreement doesn’t exist, such as the evil of sexual abuse, it must become obvious that one must be allowed to form their own opinions since uncertainty exists. We must stop being so damn certain of our understanding of God according to the Bible, especially when our interpretations are contrary to our moral intuitions. The central message about God in the Bible seems to be to strive to love others like you want to be loved. I will debate anyone who thinks a loving God, by Jesus’ example, encourages treating others like shit. We can stop labeling those who disagree with our biblical interpretations as heretics. We can stop calling those who disagree with our views of science as conspiracists. Thousands of denominations exist because of the focus on uncertain beliefs. I am convinced the only belief God cares about is loving others as you best know how!

Why Might Religious Leaders Hold To Questionable Beliefs?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

I written here many fears we may face in sharing certain beliefs with others. I am probably being too simplistic suggesting a main reason why we don’t discuss our differences whether it be about God or politics, but I am looking how to begin a discussion. I know many don’t venture certain discussions because of the consequences. Pastors loss their job if certain opinions about God are contrary to what their congregation believes. We have seen medical doctors’ licenses threaten with not agreeing with the Covid vaccine narrative. But I am desperate to understand why we avoid important conversations. Don’t we get closer to the truth sharing our opinions with one another?

We avoid pain by staying away from certain conversation

For one to question a main belief they have been taught in church all their life, such as if Hell is real, can create doubts about other beliefs they have been taught.  Questioning if the Covid shots are safe in the long-run, if we have gotten the shots, can raise anxiety about our health. Perceived certainty rather than uncertainty is more comforting psychologically. Unknowing can create confusion or anxiety. Anxiety is avoided by not discussing one’s beliefs with others who believe differently. I imagine also many avoid certain discussions because they don’t feel able to defend their position or they prefer to avoid possible conflict generally.

I have written here how assuming certainty during uncertainty can be a relationship destroyer. Certainty is an illusion unless talking about universal moral sins such as rape or incest. Adultery isn’t only wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. Most decisions are not black and white and require open debate by those in authority. Assume uncertainty if you have one rational friend who believes differently from you whether it’s about religion or politics.

Civil discussions are critical in the pursuit of truth 

Obviously, we may also avoid disagreements because such discussions can get heated. We must control our emotions when discussing our beliefs. We must talk to others like we want to be talked to. We must stop labelling others. We often are quick to consider or call others heretics or conspiracists when differing in religion or politics. How about thinking one has a different opinion than resorting to name calling!  

How can we begin having civil discussions?

  • We must stop thinking our views are morally superior to those we disagree with unless speaking of universal accepted moral truths
  • We must handle differences with physical and emotional civility, accepting that misinformation isn’t opinions that don’t agree with our own
  • We can begin conversations by looking for areas we agree
  • We can defend our reasoning, respect the opinions of others, and commit to pursuit of truth

What about those who refuse to agree to disagree?

Do Christians or God-folks always look the other way or forgive uncivility – not treating others like they want to be treated? I don’t have to accept those who demand a literal Hell is biblical at the expense of unbelievers in their journey here on earth. See here.  If one insists Hamas raping women and burning babies alive is justifiable because of perceived past disputes, I will condemn you. Jesus didn’t forgive the Pharisees before condemning their ridiculous religious laws. Open-mindedness doesn’t mean there aren’t common, universal, moral beliefs. Wisdom is required!

What May Be The Main Reason We Can’t Agree To Disagree?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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What I Wish I Had Known

by Jim Gordon

Having grown up in church all my life, there are many things I used to think and believe that have changed over the years. If I could go back fifty years and tell myself some things about my beliefs and interpretations, it would be broken down into a few different areas.

The first thing I wish I had known sooner is the New Covenant did not start at Matthew Chapter One. I never thought about Jesus living his earthly life under the law. The New Covenant did not start until His death and resurrection. When we start reading in Matthew, we are reading about the life of Christ here on earth while living and teaching under the law. He came to fulfill the law. We are restored and live by grace because of that, not by any good work we do.

I never truly thought about the fact that the Spirit of God lives within us. I always thought God was way up there in heaven, sitting on a huge throne looking down on us. I now realize God is within us. We do not have to wait until we get to heaven to communicate with God. The Spirit of God is within us. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you. We are not God, but we are one with God, just as Jesus prayed in John 17. He is with us each and every second.

I always went along with the church being a building. I was told that we go to the Lord’s house to worship. I never thought about us being the Church, the temple of the Holy Spirit. Christ is building a Church made without hands, a Church made up of His followers. We no longer have to wait until Sunday and go to a building to meet with God. The Spirit lives within us each and every day. We have fellowship with one another anytime two or three gather in His name. That can be in a living room, a restaurant, a pub or café, and it can be on any day, because every day is the day the Lord has made.

I used to look to the Bible as the word of God. I felt we got all our information and leading from God through the Bible. Now I know the Bible is the written words that God inspired men to write. The true, perfect, powerful Word of God is Jesus. As John 1:1 says, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And John 1:14 says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. Jesus in the one we worship and follow, not the Bible. We learn from the Bible, it is good to see how God provided a way for us to have access and be restored to God. It is good to read how others acted and reacted and how God dealt with them. Unfortunately, too many of us want to make the Bible part of the trinity and worship it. The Bible is not part of God. Jesus is the word. The Spirit of Christ guides us. Study the Bible, learn from it, but do not worship it and look to it as our guide when the Spirit is our guide.

The Christian life is an ongoing, daily learning process. Sometimes we get to thinking we cannot question what we have been taught over the years. It is not wrong to question. It is not a lack a faith to wonder and seek truth. In all honesty, if we are not changing, growing, questioning and learning, I would have to wonder if there wasn’t something wrong. The Holy Spirit lives within us and He is fresh and current, and is our teacher and guide. Our interpretations and views will definitely change over time as He leads us into truth. I just wonder in the next twenty years what it will be that I wish I knew now.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

Countries ruled by Dictators where there is no personal choice have failed miserably. Human nature cries out for freedom and to not be led like sheep. Democratic nations or those who have some assemblance of freedom are fortunate if able to fight for their rights. Politics, religion, and science/health practices have something in common that is dividing our country and families. We easily recognize this destroyer in our family/personal relationships but not in public arenas.

Certainty leads to close-mindedness and refusal to discuss differences 

If you find one rational person that has a difference of opinion from your own, you cannot be certain of your opinion. I don’t care if it concerns the safety of vaccines, climate solutions, or if God condemns gays. There are rational or rights to opinions on both sides. Couples who claim certainty are headed toward divorce or a sucky relationship. God-followers and religious leaders seem hell-bent in telling people what they must believe about God according to their understanding and interpretation of the Bible. Politicians who refuse debate of their policies are no different. You can spot destructiveness or evil a mile away – those who censor other opinions. Leaders play God (Superior) in the lives of others by claiming to know the truth and we can’t decide for ourselves.

Why can’t we be more openminded? 

Certainty rather than uncertainty is more comforting psychologically. One may believe what seems to be the popular narrative because unknowing can create confusion or anxiety. Anxiety is avoided by not discussing one’s beliefs with others who believe differently. For one to question a main belief they have been taught in church all their life, such as if Hell is real, can cause one to question other beliefs they have been taught. Questioning if the Covid shots are safe in the long-run, if we have gotten the shots, can raise anxiety about our health. What if we pushed others to get the shots and we end up wrong? Trusting authority always can sometimes be misguided.

The most benign explanation for denying freedom of choice is one who believes they are doing the best for all concerned. This denies uncertainty. The more evil explanation for censoring the opinions of others is one’s desire for control which leads to power over others, intentional or not. Control and power often lead to security (jobs). Control and power flourish when others are not allowed to discuss alternative opinions in the public arena. It isn’t science or theology if there isn’t debate. That is why we often change our mind when able to participate in discussions. One way to judge one’s motive is to question why they fear debating others if they are so sure they are right.

How can we know what is true 

Certainty is an illusion unless talking about universal moral sins such as rape or incest. Adultery isn’t only wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. Most decisions are not black and white and require open debate by those in authority. One must have the freedom to decide what is the best decision for themselves, or the powerful rule the powerless. Those fortunate enough to live in a democratic society must accept the vote of the majority when comes to law setting. You can still defend your position in hopes of a future vote. May the best, most common-sense position win.

I am convinced all know how a loving human should act, whether they never had a Bible (majority born in this world) or don’t believe in God. Christians leaders often claim we must be guided by biblical principles. They assume their interpretation is correct. It is common to hear one argue “The Bible says” without adding “according to my understanding.” The truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues. Hell, we can’t be sure if there is a literal Hell according to the Bible.  See here.

What is God so hidden?

Religious people may ask why God doesn’t make truth more obvious. God may not speak to us demonstratively out of love. Just because earthly parents sometime know and advise what is best for their older child, such advice doesn’t always work out. In fact, overzealousness can lead to feeling controlled, thus rejecting what is best for one’s own good. God’s awing or overwhelming presence may only lead to fearful obligations to obey. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being pressured may best lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful relationships. Maybe God speaks to us in non-dramatic ways (influence) out of love!

The path forward to save a Nation

  • We must first stop claiming our views are morally superior to those we disagree with unless speaking of universal accepted moral truths
  • We must handle differences with physical and emotional civility
  • We must begin conversations by looking for areas we agree
  • We must discuss differences by defending our reasoning, respecting the opinions of others, and commit to growing in understanding
  • We must be openminded. Consider why you are afraid to defend your belief if you supposedly know the “truth”
  • We must protect one’s freedom to choose when the possibility exists we could be wrong
  • We must stop censoring or labeling others as heretics or conspiracists that we disagree with
  • We must stop supporting politicians who advocate censorship or label those who disagree with them as mis-informers. Why believe their view if they can’t defend their views for the supposed good of the world?
  • We must use language that conveys respecting one’s right to believe in a Creator or not

What Is The Greatest Destroyer Of A Nation?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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