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Posts Tagged ‘church’

What is Christian Leadership Authority?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Ekklesia, institutional church, Love of God, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , on June 30, 2025|

by Michael Donahoe

When we talk about those in authority in the Christian world, we most often are talking about church leadership: pastor, bishop, deacons, worship leader, youth pastor. Many people seem to look up to those who are given authority and leadership positions in the church.

We tend to think that those who are in authority and leadership positions are more knowledgeable about spiritual matters, and able to lead others to God better than the normal everyday Christian.

The truth is we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we are all capable to be leaders in the sense we can encourage and help build up those with whom we have contact along the way. Each of us are kings and priests in God’s kingdom and no one is more important or on a higher level than anyone else.

Christian leadership is actually brothers and sisters in Christ who have lived and experienced more in spiritual matters. They lend a helping hand to those who are still maturing in their walk with God. There is no position of authority in this type of leadership. It is done out of love and compassion for one another and the desire to be used by God to encourage others in their walk with God.

What I see so often with people who take authority over one another is that it places an intermediary between God and man. Fortunately, not all people in leadership positions think this way and they are truly serving out of love for God and for helping their fellow believer. Yet, so often we hear of people in authority that demand our allegiance. They insist we listen to them and follow what they teach or else. This is a great misuse of authority in the Christian world today.

I do not believe there are offices of authority and leadership in the sense we hear about it today. Those who have been given positions of leadership in the body of Christ are not on a higher standing than anyone else. They are to lead by example out of love for those who are still learning. They are to be encouragers, helping build up their fellow believers into maturity.

Ephesians 4:11,12 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers to equip his people for works of service so that the body of Christ may be built up.

The true meaning of leadership by God’s standards is servanthood. Thinking more of others than you do yourself. So often it seems like just the opposite with men and women thinking they are the ones with authority and knowledge.

Matthew 20:25,26 but Jesus called them to Himself and said, you know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant.

What I believe is the final authority among Christians is the Holy Spirit who lives within us. The Bible can be used by the Spirit as a guide and help, but the Bible is only a tool. It is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness. Apart from the Spirit there is no final authority in any person, book or organization.

Although we can learn from the Bible and we can learn from one another and their experiences, it is the Spirit of Jesus from within us who is the final authority and the head of the body known as the Church. The Church is not a building, not a denomination or an organization, it is each of us who are equally functioning and necessary parts of the body of Christ.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/ and https://deconstructiontrail.substack.com/

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What Is God’s Love Really Like?

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , on June 9, 2025|

by Mike Edwards

I write a lot about this topic as I named my blog over 15 years ago  What God May Really Be Like  I used the word “May” because I was countering dogmatism growing up in church. Who knows what God is really like unless God talks to you directly? Be humble. But, if you are told something about God that goes against your moral intuitions, question it. Most accept God is love.

How do we best determine what God love like 

There is a problem claiming the Bible is the definitively word on what God’s love is like. Ancient literature is subject to interpretation. Even if the writers understood their God perfectly, which we can’t prove, we can’t claim our interpretations are perfect. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for the Bible don’t agree what God thinks about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here. See here. See here.  Gays are supposedly condemned, women’s leadership roles are limited, despite their gifts and a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels – all in God’s name!

Why wouldn’t God be most like what our moral intuitions suggest. Our inborn sense of good and evil, not an ancient Book, tells us sexual abuse or murder is immoral. If a Creator exists, it is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly? Or am I loving others like I want to be loved. Many times, when one believes contrary to universal moral intuitions (infidels should be destroyed in this life), it is because of their interpretation of a supposed inspired Book by their God.

Surely, perfect human love is the same as Godly love

The only God worth believing in must be perfectly loving as opposed to in any way hateful. God’s love surely is the same as supreme parents – other-directed not self-consumed. Love gets excited when we do well and make a difference in the lives of others. Love anticipates, hopes for my success, believes in me, pulls for me even when failing, because I do the same for my children. We doubt God but God still loves. Parents bring children into the world hoping their children freely reciprocate their love for authentic relationships. Why would God be any different.

How you imagine God’s love can determine how you relate to others

  • If we think God is hard to please and pissed off about sin rather than what sin is doing to us, we may judge others just as harshly rather than showing patience and mercy
  • If God is really a warlike God according to the OT, we will use such behaviors to possibly justify going to war when we shouldn’t
  • If God condemns gays, we will condemn gays out of devotion to God
  • If God thinks men have authority over women in some positions, that will filter down to your wives, daughters, and friends and stifle their gifts
  • If God can prevent evil and doesn’t, isn’t that like a parent who arbitrarily decides to watch their child being sexually abused or not? Maybe God can’t love perfectly by controlling freedom. God can only stop evil with the help of others or not create freedom!

I’m convinced belief in a benevolent God, according to common moral intuitions, makes you kinder. We often treat others the way we think God treats us.  How has God’s threats of punishment helped you break away from bad habits or behaviors you long to change? I guess fear God if helps to avoid consequences of destructive actions. But if struggling and need encouragement and mercy, a loving God awaits with open arms. Grace or authoritativeness doesn’t guarantee change, but I believe we best change because of a friend’s or God’s love and acceptance. See It Matters If Your God Is Nurturing Or Authoritative!

Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like 

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Forsake Not Assembling Together

Posted in christian living, Community, Ekklesia, institutional church, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , on June 4, 2025|

by Michael Donahoe

So often, when we talk about church we think of a building we go to once a week. I do not know about you, but the verse in Hebrews 10:25 about not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together sure gets quoted a lot when it comes to church attendance.

Once someone hears my wife and I have stopped attending an organized service each week, the first thing we usually hear is this verse.

Truth of the matter is, I do not think this verse is even talking about what we call church.

As I have stated before, church is not a building or a place. Church is the people of God, those of us born into the Kingdom by grace. Church is not an organization it is an organism. Church is not a one-day event, it is a daily lifestyle of people loving God and loving others.

When reading the verses preceding this verse, you find it is talking about how we are now granted permission to enter into the Holy place, not a building, but into the presence of God. This happened when Jesus died and the veil was torn from top to bottom.

To me, this verse is saying that we need our brothers and sisters in Christ for encouragement and to stimulate one another to love and good deeds in Christ. It has nothing to do with an organized religious service in a building. It has everything to do with loving and communicating with other Christians.

When we think of countries where Christianity is against the law and churches are closed down, we know people are not attending a service every week. Are they wrong for not doing so? Of course not. They get together when they can, with who they can, usually in small groups in houses or where-ever they feel they can meet safely. It may not be more than two or three people and it can be any day of the week.

Jesus said where two or three gather together in my name, there I am in their midst. We do not need buildings or large groups of people to enjoy assembling together, but we do need each other. This can happen meeting at home, meeting for dinner at a restaurant, getting together in a park or any other place or any day the Spirit brings us into fellowship. The important thing is to love God, love one another and be available for our brothers and sisters in Christ to encourage and build them up.

I once heard someone make an interesting comment about a box of Legos. He said Legos can be constantly gathered together, but it only takes shape to represent the desire of its creator when it is assembled. Then it is ready to perform the function it was created for. So is the body of Christ. Therefore, those who put all their eggs in the basket of Sunday church, it is they who have truly forsaken the assembling of themselves together. They are constantly gathering, but never really assembling.

Let me point out that I am not against church or those who attend. My wife and I were part of the weekly service for years, but over the past few years we have found that for us, it makes more sense to be outside the walls of religion and seek meaningful fellowship each day with our brothers and sisters in Christ rather than continue to sit in a pew listening to a select few participate.

Whether in a building or not, whether in a home, restaurant, or wherever the Spirit leads us, as followers of Jesus we are the body of Christ, a priesthood of all believers. Rather than an organized meeting in a defined place, it is a daily lifestyle of loving God and loving one another, and everyone is equally important and active parts of the body.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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What Does the Concert Band, the Director and Church have in Common?

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Community, Ekklesia, institutional church, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , on May 14, 2025|

by Michael Donahoe

One evening as my wife and I sat listening to one of our grandsons’ play in the school concert band, a thought came to me about church. The band was an example of what the Church should look like. When I say Church I do not mean a building under the direction of a pastor, but a community of believers, each with a part to play under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

There were many people from many different backgrounds playing various instruments. As they played different songs some of them moved to another instrument playing two or three different instruments.

Each participated using the talents they were given. They blended together as a unit when they were under the leadership of the director.

If only one person played and all the others just sat there, we would be missing out on a beautiful sound. Or if each person played what they wanted, separately doing it their own way we would get many people playing different tunes and styles without direction. It would sound terrible.

Even though each individual had their own gifts and part to play, they all kept their eyes on the director who brought it all together in perfect harmony.

As the Church, each of us come from many different backgrounds. We all have a gift, talent or various talents given to us by the Spirit. We have different parts to play, but each of us participates.

Imagine if we all came together and only one person participated. We would be missing out on a beautiful, diverse experience of the complete body participating and using their God-given talents for the good of the group.

Church is not a place to go where everyone sits down and just listens to one person, but it is people who are equally functioning parts of the body under the direction of Jesus, who is head of the body.

Each of us make up the body of Christ, and as we keep our eyes on the director, Jesus, he will bring everything together in perfect harmony for the good of the body.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer for Done with Religion as his views fit perfectly with those that are shared on this site. He and his wife, after spending about fifty-five years in the institutional church, have been outside the walls of religion for fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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Is the Church a Building or the People?

Posted in christian living, Community, Ekklesia, institutional church, Jesus follower, Love of God, The church, tagged , , , , , , on April 24, 2025|

by Michael Donahoe

So often we talk about going to church or going to God’s house. We seem to focus more on the building and the scheduled programs than anything else. When we get together, or assemble ourselves together, it is for a time of fellowship, fun, eating and getting to know one another. The fact is, we can do this anywhere, any time and any day.

As far as I am concerned, the traditional view of church, which is a building we go to on a particular day at a set time and sit and listen, is not what Jesus meant when he talked about building his Church.

My wife and I were part of the organized church for many years, and although there were a lot of good experiences and friendships made, it is not what I would consider the true Church.

When we get together with other believers, even if only two or three, the Church has assembled. This can be at someone’s home, at a restaurant, in a park, or anywhere we are able to spend some time together.

Since the Spirit of God lives within us, the Spirit is always with us. It makes no difference where we may be, no matter what day or time it is, and no matter if there is a set agenda, singing or a sermon.

Church is you and me and it can happen anywhere or any time. My wife and I have had more meaningful fellowship in the past few years being out of the organized church by meeting with others as God leads. We may have dinner and talk about what God is doing, we may pray for one another, we may sing a song or two, or we may just talk about things in general, laughing and getting to know one another better.

I know there are a lot of people who attend a regular church service each week, and there is nothing wrong with that. Although for my wife and me, we came to be very dissatisfied with the normal gathering each week, listening to one person talk, looking at the back of the head of the person in front of us, and often going home without hardly a handshake from others.

The Spirit of God is our teacher and each of us are equal participants in the Kingdom of God. We each have something to say that the Spirit can use to encourage others. It has been so much more meaningful for us to be in a group where everyone gets to talk, pray, encourage and build up one another no matter where that happens.

I know many who are in the traditional church who do not agree with this, but for my wife and me, we would not want to go back into the organized church setting. Things outside the walls have been so much better, and we have enjoyed much closer fellowship with those God brings into our lives.

So, I guess the best thing is for all of us, inside or outside the walls of religion, is to accept each other the way we are and let God do any teaching or changing that needs to be done. Rather than look down on one group or the other, accept the fact that what we do, we do for God. We want to learn from the Spirit and enjoy the gift of grace God provided. Let us continue to live in love and accept one another no matter what we do or do not do on Sundays.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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Healing Divisions within the Body of Christ

Posted in Acceptance of Others, Bible, christian living, Ekklesia, institutional church, Jesus follower, Love of God, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , , on April 4, 2025|

by Michael Donahoe

When I think about the institutional church world today, I am disturbed that it is divided into so many different groups and denominations. We will all have a little different interpretation of the Bible, a little different understanding of doctrine and we will not agree on everything. Yet, we certainly should be able to love one another and accept each other even when we differ on these things. Afterall, we are all following the example of Jesus and we all love God.

It is hard to understand why this happens when God tells us we are to be one as Jesus and God are one. We have to understand that we are human and it is easy to lose sight of our first love. If we could only stay focused on Christ, listening for the guidance of the Spirit, loving God and loving others we could look past our differences and love one another with a godly love.

The problem seems to be that we are unwilling to see any other viewpoint other than our own. There are those such as my wife and I that do not attend an organized church. There are those who attend a church every time the doors are open. Some attend a house church, some meet with fellow believers at cafe’s, parks or restaurants and others meet in their homes over dinner. We should accept these differences and love one another rather than argue over who is right and who is wrong.

There really is not a right or wrong way to assemble together and we need to stop expecting everyone to do things exactly the same way. We should respect others viewpoints and focus on loving them rather than expecting them to see things our way.

Things will not change until we start focusing on what is common in our lives rather than the differences. The common focus should be on Christ, the head of the body. After that, we should focus on loving others rather than arguing about the differences in interpretation.

We also should keep in mind that we are all constantly changing as God brings new truth to us. We are all learning and changing as we are ready to accept new truths. The opinions I had ten years ago are completely different from some of the views I have now. I am sure in another five or ten years they will change again as the Spirit leads me into more truth.

Sometimes we are afraid to accept others interpretations because we feel if we do not hold to our way of thinking, we are compromising and not standing up for what we believe. We do not have to give up how we interpret the Bible or whether we attend church or not, but neither should we think everyone else is wrong. Besides, we really are not responsible for convicting people of sin, leading them into truth or even saving them. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. We are told to love God and love others.

When we realize we are each equally important functioning parts of the body, and Christ is the head, we can start to change how we feel about those who do not see things the way we do. We can begin to accept our brothers and sisters in Christ just as they are, realizing we are walking as one with God even in our differences.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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Words are a Matter of Interpretation

Posted in Bible, christian living, Ekklesia, Love of God, The church, Word of God, tagged , , , , , , , on March 20, 2025|

by Jim Gordon

So often, what we say and what we mean are two different things. Words can mean different things to different people.

Take for instance the word church. Most of us think of a building where Christian’s meet every Sunday for an organized, pre-planned service of music, prayer and a sermon by a paid pastor. In reality, church is better described by the word ekklesia. It is people who are following Christ and allowing Him to live and love through them. Church is not a place, a building, or the house of God and it is not at a set time or day. Church is the body of Christ, each of us equally functioning as parts of the body under Christ, living our lives each day by letting Christ live through us, loving and accepting others.

How about the word Christian. We think of people who love God, go to church, pray, read their Bible and try to do the right things. Actually, Christian is a man-made word that originally was used to describe those who followed the teaching of Jesus and were doing the works of Jesus. Today, rather than being the true sense of following Christ, it is more widely known as a religion. Christians are considered people who believe in Jesus, go to church, follow specific rules, adhere to a set doctrine, pray, read the Bible and try to get more people to come to their church. We think of Christians in the same sense as Jews, Muslims, Hindus and a host of other religions rather than a way of life walking with Jesus.

When we talk about prayer, we generally think of a set time when we make our requests known to God and thank God for answered prayer. In many formal meetings, prayers are written out and followed word for word to make people sound more spiritual. Actually, prayer is just talking like you would talk to a friend or relative only you are talking to God. Not only talking, but being quiet and listening for God to speak to us through the Spirit. Believe it or not, prayer is not spoken in King James English. It is talking to God just like we talk to anyone else.

What about the Bible. Of course, our first thought is a book that God inspired men to write. If we look closer at John 1:1, we find that the Bible is not a book at all. “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God”. Actually, the Word of God is Jesus. He is the inerrant, all powerful, living Word of God. The Bible is a book that contains writings of men that tell us about God and leads us to Jesus. By reading the Bible, we can learn a lot about God and the love God has for us, all shown through the life of Jesus. What we do not want to do is make the Bible equal to God. The Bible is not part of God, it is a book that tells us about God and leads us to Jesus.

The word worship is generally thought of as a time during the organized service when people are led into song and outward praise to God by a leader paid to bring people into an atmosphere of worship. The style of worship also varies greatly from group to group. Many people think worship is singing, meditating, lifting of hands or dancing. Worship is a true sense of reverence and adoring praise to God. It is personal and does not need a professional leader to bring us to this point. It is a sincere and earnest thankfulness we have for God. It can be by song and outward signs or it can be quiet and inward meditation.

I am sure there are many other words we could come up with that would fit here, but the main point is it is not as important the word we use, but the true meaning. In our life of service to God, Jesus is the focal point. It does not boil down to our doctrines, beliefs and man-made efforts. It is following Christ, allowing Him to live through us by the Spirit and giving God the throne of our lives. Jesus is the head of the body, the rest of us are equal parts with various giftings and functions.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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What Is A Religious Done

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Ekklesia, institutional church, Jesus follower, Kingdom of God, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , on March 12, 2025|

by Michael Donahoe

In recent times, we seem to hear more about the religious dones. Different surveys talk about the nones, the dones and the religious unaffiliated. This means different things to different people.

I think many church people and Christian people think the same thing on this topic. If you are a religious none, you have left God. If you are a religious done and do not go to church, you have decided not to follow God and are in a backslidden state.

I do not believe that at all. Being done with religion to me means done with organized religion and institutional church, but not done with God. We are done with religion, but only because we want a more meaningful walk following the example of Jesus. So basically, we leave the organization to enhance our walk with God.

For about twenty years, I increasingly became more and more disillusioned with church. I sat there week after week thinking there has to be more, God certainly did not intend that following him meant nothing more than looking at the back of the head of the person in front of me. We sit for an hour listening to a few other people do all the singing and preaching, then get up and go home for the week.

I felt that the church emphasized more that we listen to the pastor and follow the Bible rather than learn how to listen to and follow the Spirit that was within us. I realized that we no longer needed a middle man because we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we find the Kingdom of God within us.

I remember how afraid I was to ask questions because people would think I was losing my faith. I was tired of hearing exclusive teaching and discrimination by telling us how bad certain people were and that we needed to stay away from them. The only exception was if we used every opportunity to witness to them. The church would say everyone was welcome, but then exclude them from participation until they changed and became like the church expected.

I could not understand why there were so many different types of churches and denominations, all supposedly following the same God yet being mad and arguing with people from different churches.

I think I could go on and on, but I just got so tired and dissatisfied with church that my wife and I decided to stop going and see how things went. Well, for us, they went better. That dissatisfaction seemed to disappear. I started having relationships with others that I was told I should have no association. I started asking questions and finding that it was OK. I started finding new friends in various places and they did not ruin my fellowship or belief in God.

I know many people who enjoy going to church to be with others and that is OK. Yet I know others who got fed up with church and had issues that made them mad. For us, that was not the case. We just felt so unhappy and unfulfilled while in the institutional church we had to move on.

I think most people think that if you are a done, you have completely given up on God. They think you became an atheist and want nothing to do with God, when actually it is just religion itself we are done with, and we no longer want to spend time in a building that just does not mean what it used to mean.

After fifteen years outside the institutional church, we can honestly say we are happier and more fulfilled. We rely more on learning to hear from the Spirit within, we are free from specific doctrines and beliefs found in religion and we depend more on God to lead us to meaningful fellowship with all people as we walk in the freedom we have found outside the walls of religion.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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The church Today

Posted in christian living, institutional church, Kingdom of God, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , on February 19, 2025|

by Jim Gordon

I have become more inclined to follow my feeling that the church today is way off base of what God intended. By church, I mean the organized, man-made denomination, the religious church. I continue to come across books and websites that confirm my thoughts.

Take for instance the teaching of the church on tithing. We are constantly told we need to give our 10% to the church or we are robbing God. Wait a minute, that was in the Old Testament. Jesus came to fulfill the law and provide grace for us.

Am I saying it is wrong to tithe? Tithing is no longer required, but freely giving is always a godly thing to do. If you attend an organized church and you feel they are doing what God wants for them, yes, support it. But do not feel you have to tithe. Do not let a pastor guilt you into giving because he uses some Old Testament verse to tell you that you are robbing from God. Give because you love God and want to give. Give 1%, 5%, 10%, 50%, whatever you determine in your heart to give. We are free to give the amount we determine and are no longer under law nor required to tithe.

Another issue to me is, why get so caught up on being in a building each week, listening to one man (or woman) telling us what God is saying or what the Bible says. Jesus said he was sending us another comforter, and we now have the Holy Spirit to teach us. We are the temple of the Spirit and the Kingdom of God is within us. We no longer need a building nor a middle-man to lead us.

Am I saying it is wrong to go to church? Of course not. I do believe the modern-day organized church is not in line with what God intended. I also believe we do not have to attend any organized church. Some will say the Bible says do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together. That is true, but it does not say you have to assemble together anywhere in particular or on any particular day. Meet up with other believers in a restaurant, or invite them to your home for a meal, or have a time of fellowship online. That is what I feel the Bible is talking about. We do not need a human-led, organized and pre-planned organization to find fellowship and spiritual guidance.

In our day and age, it is time to get over the man-made religious system and the church building being the center of our Christian life and realize there is more. Most churches today are more of a social meeting place or a big business than anything. We should focus on Jesus and build our relationship with him and realize that WE are the Church and the Holy Spirit lives within us, making us the dwelling place of God. We are the temple of God.

We need to build our fellowship with God and with one another. This does not need to be done in a building with an organized service, but in spending time with our brothers and sisters in Christ, helping one another and serving one another through God’s love for us. Others should be able to know that we are Christians because of the love we have for one another, not where we spend our Sunday morning.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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How Do We Determine What Is Moral? No, It Isn’t According To The Bible!

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , on January 26, 2025|

By Mike Edwards

Morality isn’t determined or depend on one’s Holy Book

Christians often claim that determining morality must have a source such as the Bible or then only based on subjective feelings. What about before the Bible existed or those that don’t revere the Bible – are they clueless about morality? Morality can’t be whatever an individual feels or there could be no laws such as murder, or a murderer could claim they felt their actions moral. I will discuss first why one’s Holy Book cannot be the definitive source for determining morality from immorality. I will conclude how then can we go about determining what is moral, though we can’t always claim certainty such as if capital punishment is the more moral stance.

We can’t prove the Bible is divinely inspired by God

Christians leaders often argue that the entire Bible is divinely inspired by God. Since they believe God is perfectly moral, the Bible then is their basis for morality. It must be claimed the Bible is entirely divinely inspired, or humans can only guess what passages are inspired. The biggest proof often given to suggest God inspired perfect morality written down is because the Bible makes such claims (i.e. 2 Tim 2:16). But a Book isn’t proven to be inspired because it claims to be inspired. Those who claim God inspired the Bible don’t accept the Koran to be divinely inspired if claimed.

Even if the Bible is inspired by God, our interpretation aren’t divinely inspired 

Even if we could prove the writers of the Bible always understood God perfectly, our interpretations may not be inspired. Biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what God thinks about many moral issues such as hell, gays, or women’ roles. Gays are often condemned, women’s leadership roles are limited despite their gifts, and it is suggested a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels – all in God’s name. Extremists often will advocate killing infidels in this life because their Holy Book is inspired by God and their interpretation is right.

Why don’t we want to use the Bible as the determinate of morality?

A supposed divinely inspired Bible, without admitting one’s interpretation could be wrong, causes many relational atrocities. The Bible in the past has been used to defend slavery. It is claimed God condemn gays. Many may be unaware biblical scholars who respect the Bible don’t believe Scriptures condemn gay monogamous relationships. See here. Many parents feel obligated to condemn their gay children in the name of God. I am begging Christian leaders to stop condemning gays because the Bible supposedly does. Admit you could be wrong. Stop with nonsense “hate the sin, love the person.” You don’t know being gay is a sin. Besides, it is impossible to feel loved and accepted when such words are used. Why would anyone choose to be gay based on the condemnation and bigotry they face?

Churches today still deny women using their spiritual gifts by preventing them from serving in the church. The Bible could easily be interpreted to suggest God suggests roles based on gifts not gender. See here. Maybe even worse, submission is often interpreted in marriage to imply when there is an impasse, someone (guess who) must make the final decision. I have never had a marriage issue in 42 years that can’t be solved creatively together. Men in authority over women can encourage dominance on the man’s part, which can be conducive for domestic abuse and the other atrocities women face at the hands of men. Women need men with the heart of a servant!! (Eph. 5:28-29) If we at least stopped claiming certainty in God’s name regarding gays or women’ roles, according to the Bible, it would reveal more the loving God we believe in.

How do we determine what is truly moral? 

Over half the world born into this world didn’t have a Bible. Were they morally clueless?

Most who believe the Bible is divinely inspired though not admitting interpretation challenges, would suggest a Creator has endowed his creations to know good from evil. We can intuitively know how our Creator loves – the same way we were created/born to love one another. We don’t have perfect knowledge but most understand the question we ought to ask ourselves and others – am I loving others perfectly? Or am I loving others like I want to be loved. This intuition is why rational human beings believe murder and sexual or physical abuse is immoral, unless you believe an assumed divinely inspired Holy Book advocates such actions.

Only extremists deny there is objective truth except for their claim “there is no objective truth.”

Morality is rooted in human nature, rather than just a product of religious influences. Biblical interpretations that go against our moral intuitions may be wrong. Why would God create you to intuitively feel different. Moral and immoral decisions begin with discussing what is common, often universal, moral sense. This applies to religious decisions, legal decisions when making laws, or even political issues such as immigration or climate change. We don’t always know what perfect love is, but we should be all asking together – “What leads to the greater good?”

How Do We Determine What Is Moral? No, It isn’t According To the Bible!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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