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Posts Tagged ‘eternal life’

Getting Saved Isn’t About Going to Heaven or Hell!

Posted in christian living, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on January 12, 2025|

By Mike Edwards

I wrote recently here  what might be the greatest misunderstanding about God and getting saved. Christians often emphasize the main message about God and the Bible is avoiding hell and getting to heaven by saying the sinner’s prayer: “God, forgive me for my sins and thank you for dying on the Cross to pay the price for my wrongdoing.” No such prayer is found in the Bible. Recently, I failed to include the greatest objection below to what I am claiming – that the Apostle Paul, who wrote a lot of the New Testament, supposedly spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer. It is important because we may be misrepresenting God’s main message to us.

The main message can’t be about avoiding Hell 

I bet if you ask most non-church people what church people say is important about the Christian faith, they will talk about getting saved to go to heaven to avoid hell. The main message can’t be about Hell which doesn’t literally exist. See 12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth! There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell,” only possibly words used as metaphors to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What did Jesus say about eternal life? 

Jesus never spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer to make others feel secure about the afterlife. True, he couldn’t talk about the purpose of the Cross since hadn’t happen, but Jesus message seem to be more about the here and now, not trying to terrify you about the afterlife. When Jesus was asked how to have eternal life, Jesus didn’t speak about a physical destiny but life here on earth. (Lk.10:25-37) Jesus simply answered the question “love God and your neighbor,” speaking more about the quality than quantity of life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife.

When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living. When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees, pray, and ask for forgiveness! Jesus encouraged loving God because Jesus knew that leads to loving others.  The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. He might never see her again. Where was Jesus evangelical spiel?

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment?

It is argued that Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death. (Rm. 7:11) Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6).

God wasn’t so pissed to require Jesus’ death than yours

To insist God required Jesus be murdered on the Cross in place of you isn’t Godly or parental love. Google “theological views of Jesus’ death” for many interpretations about Jesus’ death. Did Jesus and the Romans have no choice but to murder Jesus for an unjust cause? Soldiers die for one another because of a cause they believe in. Jesus thought his message was worth dying for. Jesus accepting death than powering over others may be the reason billions have been influenced to live unselfishly. Jesus wanted to change our attitude about God, not to change God’s attitude toward us. What kind of God sees how the world has turned out and doesn’t just say the Hell with it, but instead enters such a world to experience underserved suffering via the Cross to inspire and relate? 

What really is God’s salvation?

Jesus spoke of a life, worth living, empowered by God, for your good and those you have relationships with. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as deep down you wish you could. I get help from God in pursuing a life with less regrets, of being the husband, father, friend, and man I truly want to be. It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us. God’s influence, though invisible, can be the same as a parent who has left this earth that you believed loved you to the fullest. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now with God’s help – a path toward great relationships.  

Getting Saved Isn’t About Going To Heaven Or Hell!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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What Is Main Message about Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , on November 17, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Hell is certainly a message Christians get wrong. I am convinced a literal Hell is a biblical myth.  See here.  We get wrong that God thinks women can’t serve in the same religious or marriage roles that men can. Another myth. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. Another myth. See here. But the biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. People reject God based on claims about hell, women, or gays. But it is so important to know that God cares about you here and now and not about just the afterlife.

The main message isn’t about a literal Hell somewhere other than on earth

Gehenna, the Greek word translated as Hell in the New Testament, was the name of a real valley near Jerusalem with a history of terrible, ending slaughter.  Gehenna is best translated Gehenna just as Mount Everest is best translated Mount Everest. There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell.” Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible biblically or morally.   See here.  See here. 

The main message isn’t about God saving us to enter Heaven away from Earth 

Jesus taught as if God’s Kingdom was near, not coming in distant future. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mk 9:1) The Good News throughout the Gospels refers to a Kingdom here on earth now. The kingdom of God “has come upon you” (Mt 12:28) and “is in your midst.” (Lk 17:21) The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.”

What about eternal life?

Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships.

What did the earliest Gospel says how Jesus spoke to others? 

I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ main message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living.
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment? 

The Apostle Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death (Rm. 7:11). Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6). The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What about life after death?

We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. It is reasonable to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

God only seeks to inspire you to avoid a life full of regrets

We are told the message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself now. You may be different than me, but I get help from God in pursuing a life not full of regrets. Try it! It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us.  If you refuse to love, you may end up a lonely, regretful soul.

What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Why I Doubt God Cares What Your Beliefs Are!

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, tagged , , , on September 9, 2019|

By Mike Edwards

Loving, human parents don’t require certain beliefs from their children before loving them. Are we better lovers than God? God, like any parent, only wishes we consider the possibility of a loving God who desires to help in our journey of becoming the person deep down we want to become. Who wants to live a self-centered life that only hurts those you love and yourself as well! A loving Creator surely cares more about how we treat others than our beliefs. 

You don’t have to be a Christian to be loved by God.

A loving God wouldn’t ignore the realities of our world by insisting one can only come to God by believing in Jesus. The majority of people born into this world died without any knowledge of the Bible or who Jesus was. A reason one may think God judges people who have never heard about God or misunderstand God is because a Book supposedly says so.

Jesus simply asked people to follow Him, not confess, say a prayer, and be called Christians. Only terrorists believe you must be of a certain religion or be killed. No human or spiritual parent brings children into the world requiring that one’s eternal destination is based on circumstances out of one’s control. Bad and good religion must be distinguished, but the Bible mustn’t be used to claim all must convert to Christianity to be accepted by God.

Don’t you at least have to believe in God?

The first chapter of Romans in the Bible is used to suggest all who don’t believe in God are suppressing what they know to be true. Actually, the writer doesn’t claim his audience doubts but ignores God and morality to justify their wicked ways. Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch and accuse those who question of being wicked and not knowing their feelings. If it is a sin to doubt God exists, then Christians sin if they doubt God in troubled times.

A child sexually abused by their father maybe can’t accept a God most often betrayed as our Father in Heaven. Does God really judge them? Some may want to believe in God but can’t get their head around why a loving God doesn’t intervene more in so much evil in the world. Does God really judge them? Why would a gay person believe in a God when condemned by God-followers for choices they can no more control than straights can.

Surely you must believe Jesus was the Son of God or resurrected from the grave!

One must admit it is hard to understand how one chromosomally can be God and human. Isn’t it logically impossible to be God and not God? Some may be willing to accept that Jesus was an extraordinary man who epitomized who God was. Why can’t we begin there as a discussion as to what teachings and actions of Jesus seem to represent what a loving God is like?

Jesus’ disciples wavered if Jesus resurrected, and they supposedly witnessed miracles beforehand. It is understandable why we may waver since we rely on historical as opposed to visible evidence. Each must consider the historical evidence for themselves. Jesus seem to confront the most those whose actions were unloving to others, not those struggling to accept certain beliefs.

Even the Bible doesn’t require certain beliefs for eternal life!

Jesus didn’t think of eternal life as something after death but a quality of life that begins here on earth to avoid future regrets. Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). No one is going to Heaven if such actions are required according to God’s standards. If entering Heaven depends on certain beliefs or saying the sinner’s prayer, wouldn’t Jesus have responded differently?

Where have written Creeds or Doctrines gotten us?

Catholics, Protestants, and most other religions establish Creeds or Doctrines to differentiate themselves from others. It isn’t always said you are required to accept them to participate but try challenging them and see where that gets you! If beliefs about the Trinity, Angels, the Bible, the Virgin Mary, etc. were clear, why the Hell can’t we agree. I doubt God cares about these matters. Christians would be more united and less judgmental if religions established only the Creed of Love and live it out. This may lead to feeding more the poor than erecting more buildings.

What God cares about!

God only wants us to consider loving others like we want to be loved. Doesn’t this lead to true freedom for ourselves and other. Also, in a broken world we may want to consider matters such as justice and forgiveness, because one day we may be on that side of the fence. God has no sacred beliefs. You don’t have to believe that hell is real or that God condemns gays. Identify any beliefs of God proclaimed by others that make pursing a relationship with God difficult for you. God only hopes we may come to believe in God’s love for us so we might reflect such love back to others.

MORE POSTS IN SERIES: I DOUBT GOD REALLY ……

Why I Doubt God Is An Excluder Of Religions

Why I Doubt Heaven Is Closed To Anyone After Death

Why I Doubt Hell Is Real

Why I Doubt God Is A Homophobe

Why I Doubt God Is A Sexist

Why I Doubt God Is A Mysterious, Moral Hypocrite

Why I Doubt God Is A Blood-Thirsty Child (Jesus) Killer

Why I Doubt God Expects Every Word Of The Bible To Be Viewed As Inspired

Why I Doubt God Is An End-Of-The-World Doomsayer

Why I Doubt God Is An Angry Egomaniac

Why I Doubt God Is A “Hidden Agenda” Proselytizer

Why I Doubt the god of Extremists Or Terrorists

Why I Doubt God Is A Prayer Genie

Why I Doubt God Controls Evil And Suffering

Why I Doubt God Knows The Future And Why It Matters

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Why I Doubt God Is A “Hidden Agenda” Proselytizer!

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Community, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , on August 5, 2019|

By Mike Edwards

Beliefs claimed about God lead to many tuning out God. Our relationship with God cannot exceed our understanding of God. I have written HERE how we can decide what God is really like. One’s interpretation of a Book may be the only reason to think human and godly perfection are different. Why would a Creator not love us and others how we were seemingly created to love others?

Friends can smell a hidden agenda a mile away.

It simply is wrong to engage in friendships for the purpose of converting them to your beliefs without advising upfront this is your agenda. It should be obvious that we need to start acting like true friends act toward one another. We engage in relationships because we are interested in having friendships with others, both to love and be loved. Discussions about spirituality or God best come up naturally.

If people want to pursue a relationship with God, they should see in our life something worth asking about. What if I told you the Gospel is: God loves you and longs for a relationship so you can be the kind of person you deep down truly desire to be. I am convinced God wants you to know true freedom is knowing your Creator’s love for you so you might love others similarly. 

God has been a respecter of freedom of beliefs from the very beginning.

Why would a God who is powerful enough to create not annihilate immediately those who choose evil and oppose God? Jesus did not force God on others but discussed spirituality in a natural, relational way. Jesus brought up spiritual matters when it seemed appropriate and was accepted. Jesus’ agenda was to simply love people in the moment, not to manipulate them.

We have portrayed God as a Parent who has certain conditions to be loved and accepted. We portray God as wanting to save people from hell, which is a myth, rather than being a God who respects one’s freedom to consider how they might make for a better world. God knows what human parents know. Love is the only path to authentic relationships but can’t be forced. “Controlling love” is a contradiction in terms. Relationships come out of inspiration not fear!

Even the Son of God in the Bible didn’t require certain beliefs.

Jesus simply invited His disciples to follow Him and see for themselves as opposed to adhere to a set of beliefs. He told Levi (Matthew): “follow me” (Lk. 5:27). Jesus basic message could be summarize as: “But to you who are listening I say: ….Do to others as you would have them do to you” (6:27-31). Jesus only encouraged those seeking a better life to follow His example. 

We all know the story of how Jesus responded to the religious elite who had caught a woman in adultery (Jn. 7:53-8:11). When Jesus rightly shamed the crowd, they dropped their stones and left Jesus and the woman alone. Jesus didn’t lecture, pray with the woman, or tell her to go to church. Jesus simply said: “Go now and leave your life of sin.” Jesus showed the woman all she needed to know – God loves you and encourages you to do what you know is right in your heart.

Jesus saved tough conversations for religious pretenders who claimed to represent God. The Pharisees were in love with their power, thus making religion self-serving rather than self-sacrificing. Jesus reprimanded the Pharisees for their misguided emphasis on rules and obedience rather than a relationship and God’s radical love. 

Many may be surprised what Jesus said when asked how to have eternal life.

Jesus did not warn one to run like/from Hell. Jesus simply advised to love God and your neighbor. One saves their life by running from selfishness. A religious expert asks Jesus: “what must I do to inherit eternal life” (Luke 10:25). Jesus didn’t admonish one to get on their knees and pray for forgiveness. Jesus said: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself” (10:25-27). Jesus knew loving God can empower us to be the person we deep down desire to be.

Eternal life in the Bible isn’t about one’s destination in the future but life in the present. J.D. Myers is right: “When Scripture teaches about being saved from sin, it is not referring to escaping hell and going to heaven when we die, but to the deliverance from the devastating and destructive consequences of sin in this life.” https://redeeminggod.com/confess-jesus-romans-10-9-10/

God-followers need to worry more about their example than what others believe.

Baptists, Methodists, Protestants, Catholics, etc. fight over their different doctrines, yet all supposedly believe in the same message of loving your neighbor as yourself. Why would anyone seek spiritual guidance from people that can’t get along? We have enough conflict in our families, friendships, and places of work. Christianity or any religion is better off without buildings with names on them. We simply need relationships that encourage one another in their spiritual journey.

What does God believe in and desire for us all?

People feel manipulated rather than loved when spiritual folks have an agenda. Engage in relationships only with the desire to love others as they wished to be loved. The Gospel is simply that our Creator desires a relationship to influence us for the world and our own good. Jesus only wanted to help others listen to their heart. I am convinced a close relationship with my Creator helps me to be a better man, husband, father, and friend. Loving parents seek the admiration and respect of their children, so they want to follow in their footsteps to make this world a better place. Similarly, knowing and understanding God’s radical love can inspire selfless love toward others.

More posts in the I Doubt God Really ………. series:

Why I Doubt God Is An Excluder Of Religions

Why I Doubt Heaven Is Closed To Anyone After Death

Why I Doubt Hell Is Real

Why I Doubt God Is A Homophobe

Why I Doubt God Is A Sexist

Why I Doubt God Is A Mysterious, Moral Hypocrite

Why I Doubt God Is A Blood-Thirsty Child (Jesus) Killer

Why I Doubt God Expects Every Word Of The Bible To Be Viewed As Inspired

Why I Doubt God Is An End-Of-The-World Doomsayer

Why I Doubt God Is An Angry Egomaniac

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What Beliefs Does God Require?

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, tagged , , , on April 15, 2019| 1 Comment »

By Mike Edwards

I don’t have to convince anyone that God does or doesn’t exist. God can speak to the hearts of individuals on their own. That billions are convinced there is a loving God cannot be declared definitely irrational or delusional. It is not irrational either to ask if God is real, why doesn’t God clinch the argument by making their Presence obvious? I would encourage those who believe in a relational God to not stand in the way of others and speak for God declaring any beliefs are required by God to consider a relationship.

God doesn’t require any belief!  

I am convinced God only wishes for all to consider the possibility of a loving God who desires to help you in your journey of becoming the person deep down you want to become. Loving, human parents don’t require certain beliefs from their children before hoping they will consider if they love them. Are we better lovers than God? 

You certainly don’t have to believe in magical trees and talking snakes.

No one was there with Adam or Eve to know literally what took place. Genesis isn’t necessarily a scientific explanation about Creation but about a relationship with the Creator. Flood stories appeared in ancient literature before Genesis. The global flood story could describe a regional flood in hyperbolic terms to convey moral, spiritual food for thought. God doesn’t require literal belief in any event in the Bible or else! Now if God physically appears raising your friend from the dead, you may want to consider!

You don’t have to believe Jesus resurrected from the dead.

I know the above statement is extremely offensive to many, but I care more about those who want to believe in a God but struggle with certain requirements as opposed to those who are already convinced a loving God is real. Jesus told followers He was coming back from the dead and they didn’t believe Him. And they supposedly witnessed miracles beforehand to have less doubts such a claim was possible.

I would like to think more of us if we witness a man or woman coming back from the grave after being killed that we would think their message such as claiming to be the son of God would be believed. But, none of us lived during biblical times so we will not have such an opportunity. I happen to believe the historical evidence is credible that Jesus rose from the grave, but God can handle doubts or skepticism.

You don’t have to believe that Jesus was the Son of God.

Many insist that Jesus was both God and man. Some can’t logically wrap their heads around Jesus being both man and God. Exactly how does one do that chromosomally? Isn’t it logically impossible to be God and not God? Some may be willing to accept that Jesus was an extraordinary man who epitomized who God was. Why can’t we begin there as a discussion as to what teachings and actions of Jesus seem to represent what a loving God is like?

Doesn’t God at least require the Law of Love?

I have written before that the only belief God requires is love. I would say that differently now. God doesn’t demand love but only seeks to encourage unselfish love which leads to personal freedom. God know what we know – the road traveled of learning, reflecting, and freely choosing convictions over time is what leads to genuine, lasting love.

Didn’t Jesus require belief for eternal life?

When Jesus was asked directly by a religious expert how to have eternal life, Jesus didn’t talk about escaping torture after death. Please see HERE that the Bible says nothing about the traditional understanding of Hell. Jesus replied to simply love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus’ focus wasn’t on quantity of life after death but about a life worth living here on earth. Jesus’ message wasn’t about requiring certain beliefs but avoiding consequences in life here on earth through destructive choices. This is the message of any loving parent!

What beliefs about God are worth insisting upon to others?  

There is no belief about God you should impose upon others. You could be wrong. God is big enough to prove themselves to those interested. You don’t even have to insist God is loving. A tyrannical God isn’t worth believe in. I surely am not as perfect or loving of a parent as God is, but even I don’t require my children accept any of my beliefs or else. Even I understand controlling through fear than proving my love doesn’t lead to true change and intimacy.

 

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