To be at peace with all people, including believers and non-believers, seems almost impossible in our world today. We have so many different thoughts and ideas, different denominations, different religions, interpretations and beliefs. It makes you wonder how it is possible to be at peace with everyone?
I have been thinking recently about how some Christian people act towards those who see things differently. I do not know why we can be so mean at times. We feel we must prove our point to others and stand our ground when it comes to doctrine and interpretation of the Bible. I am not sure why we feel it is our job to be the morality police. Why do we feel the need to force our views, beliefs and interpretations on others?
Rather than base our lives on following doctrine and interpretation, we are to follow the example of Jesus. He said to love God and love one another. There is no way to be at peace with others without loving them. We cannot love others without the Spirit of love living within us.
The dictionary describes peace as freedom from disquieting or oppressive thoughts or emotions; harmony in personal relations. I think what God is saying about being at peace with all is that we are to live in harmony with others, not allowing any oppressive thoughts or emotions to take control of our feelings toward them. In other words, we live in love.
Just because someone does not interpret the Bible the same way we do or go to the same church we do (or does not go to church at all), we all want to love God and do what is pleasing to God.
We are to accept one another in love, and respect the fact that God is working in different ways in people. Just because it is not the way we believe or the way we do things does not mean it is not of God.
In regard to non-believers, we do not need to condemn them or force our beliefs on them. We are to let them see the love of God by the way we treat others. They do not need someone beating them down or twisting their arms to get them to believe like us. We are to love them and let the Spirit do any work that needs to be done in their lives just as the Spirit does in our lives.
If we believers could understand that we are responsible for ourselves in the way we live for God. We are not responsible to force our ways on others or try to make them live as we do. We are to allow God to work in each life and follow the path God has for each of us.
Our responsibility is to love God and love others, accept them for who they are and pray that the Holy Spirit will teach us and guide us in the way we are to go. Only by living in love can we live at peace with all.
Michael Donahoe created Done with Religion after he and his wife left the institutional church after over fifty years within the system. He wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system, and tell why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. They have now been outside the walls of religion for over fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://deconstructiontrail.substack.com/ and https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/ Michael can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com
I began to reimagine God in my early twenties. What I was being taught in church about God didn’t align with my understanding of a perfectly loving, morally good God. The only kind of God I thought was worth believing in. What did I know about love? I had parents and other relationships. I couldn’t imagine that God’s love wasn’t the same of what I understood about perfect human love. It doesn’t make sense why a Creator wouldn’t love the same way we humans believe were seemingly created by a Creator to love (aka goodness vs. evil). I decided in my journey to reject harmful portrayals of God that conflict with universal human understandings of love and goodness. I came to believe that God is not defined by rigid doctrines or literalist readings of Scripture. See some of my core beliefs below as you imagine what you think God is really like.
God must be perfectly loving
The only God worth believing in is perfectly loving and moral. We can understand God’s love by comparing it to the best of human love—especially parental love.
God’s love is patient, hopeful, and other‑directed
A loving Creator would not act in ways universally recognized as immoral (e.g., cruelty, favoritism, violence)
Scripture requires interpretation and is not always definitive
There are contradictions, moral challenge, and different interpretations in the Bible, No one can claim perfect interpretation. Christians interpret differently passages about hell, women, and LGBTQ+ . Therefore, dogmatic certainty about God’s nature based solely on Scripture is unwarranted.
God is not defined by rigid doctrines or literalist readings of Scripture but by perfect love, moral goodness, and the universal human intuition of what it means to love well. My work encourages humility, moral reasoning, and rejects harmful portrayals of God in favor of a love-centered understanding.
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the Done with Religion site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
John Noe in Beyond The End Times: The Rest Of The Great Story Ever Told argues there is biblical evidence that the end times spoken in the Scriptures have been fulfilled. We may be looking forward to Jesus’ second coming (the words “second coming” never appear together in the Bible), when there is evidence that Jesus has already come again and fulfilled the prophecy regarding the “end times” in Scripture. Is God coming again (i.e. rapture/tribulation/Armageddon) to destroy this world as we know it and set up His reign? This viewpoint, if incorrect, can cause passivity, while we just wait on God to “fix” things by coming again. We must do all we can for the next generation. Suffering does end eventually for those who chose life with God after death.
History suggests Jesus’ predictions of coming in the “last days” have taken place. In the first century the great tribulation was fulfilled. The temple was destroyed and biblical Judaism ceased to exist. By AD 70 the city and the Temple were burned and destroyed. The covenant nation of Israel and biblical Judaism were forever destroyed. The destructive of Jerusalem was the end of the crucial redemptive-historical epoch. Early church historians affirm Jesus came in the fall of Jerusalem fulfilling Zechariah’s end-time prophecy. [Noe, 214] A literal day in August/September AD 70 was the third most important date in human history along with Christmas and Easter. The new heaven and earth were fulfilled in AD 70 when Jesus came.
The first biblical evidence that Jesus has already come is because the biblical writers and readers expected the “end times” spoken of to happen within their generation.
Peter writes to his readers in the first century that “the end of all things is at hand.” (1 Pe 4:7) Matthew records Jesus saying “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” (Mt 24:34) It has been suggested a generation could mean a thousand years, but the word in the Greek was never used in this way. We should take the word to mean what it typically means unless contextual evidence suggests otherwise. Jesus in Matthew 24 was advising the end times were soon. Jesus recommends his readers flee because predictions made are to take place in their generation. (v 16) When asked about the sign of His coming and the end of the age, Jesus said: “watch out that no one deceives you….you will hear of wars and rumors of war. (Mt 24:4-6)
Many other passages suggest the readers knew Jesus’ words would be fulfilled in their lifetime. I Corinthians 7 advises how to conduct relationships in times of danger as the “time is short.” (v 29) All references in the New Testament of the “last days” refer to the times of the writer, which was in the first century. (i.e. Heb 1:1-2; Acts 2:15-17; I Tim 4:1; 2 Tim 3:1; James 5:3; 2 Peter 3:3; I Peter 1:5,20; Jude 17-19; I Jn 2:18-20) The last days are referred to in the present tense. New Testament writer confirmed the coming of the Lord is at hand. (James 5:8; I Cor 7:29-31; I Peter 4:7, 17; I John 2:18) Finally, Hebrews 10:25, 36 says: “…and all the more as you see the Day approaching…For, in just a little while, he who is coming will come and will not delay.”
Secondly, several biblical passages suggest the earth is not going to ever pass away or be destroyed like the flood.
(Gen 8:21-22 9:11) Scriptures imply the earth and the world were established to endure forever. (Ps 78:69; see also Ps. 93:1; 96:10; 119:90) Ephesians 3:9 says: the world is “without end.” Not one passage says clearly the world is passing away. In fact, the Bible states our citizenship is in heaven, not a new heaven and earth. (Philip 3:20) We must be careful how we interpret language in the Bible. If everything were taken literally in the Bible, the Earth would have been destroyed many times over. Often, annihilation language is used to advise of upcoming judgments. Nahum 1:5 says: “the hills melt away.” The context is God’s judgment with Nineveh (1:1). Joel 2:30-31 says: “I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.” The fulfillment of this prophecy in Peter’s day (Acts 2:16-21). Numerous passages are not predicting the ending of the world or some mass destruction but rather either God’s judgment or some major event in history by God.
Jesus said to his audience in their time that the “heaven and earth will pass way.” (Mt 24:34-35) Obviously, the earth did not pass away physically as it still exists 2000 years later. Jesus was referring to a spiritual and not physical reality. Paul says: “this world in its present form is passing away” (I Cor 7:31) and that its “time is short.” (7:29) Paul was not referring to the end of the physical world. Paul was referring to the Old Testament Law system that was to be replaced in a new order and reality in Christ before their very eyes. Revelation 21:1 says: “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.”
Daniel when prophesying was told to close up and seal his words as the fulfillment was in the future. (Daniel 12:4, 9) John in Revelation was told to leave his book unsealed (Rev. 22:10), because his words were to be fulfilled soon. (Rev. 1:1, 3, 22:6-10) If John words were to be fulfilled centuries later as were Daniel’s, wouldn’t have John been told to “seal” his words? It is possible the new heaven and new earth that John spoke of was not physical but a spiritual reality. This spiritual reality happened when Jesus came again through the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in A.D. 70 and thus the law went with it. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law. Isaiah’s new heaven and earth (65:17-18; 66:22) are Messianic and totally covenantal. The “new heaven and earth” spoken of speaks of a present reality in the time of the writer of Revelation 21: 3-7 Jesus was coming again in their time.
But, don’t the Scriptures assume the coming of Jesus described during Jesus’ generation and during Paul’s audience time is visible?
In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 Paul assured his audience they have not missed the “day of the Lord.” Why was Paul’s audience fearful they could miss the coming of Jesus if such a coming is supposedly a rapture-removing, visible, world-ending coming? The audience obviously thought Jesus’ coming was to be in their lifetime. Only a non-visible, spiritual coming of Jesus could possibly be missed. Clearly, the disciples did not think of Jesus’ coming being visible as they ask “what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age.” (Mt 24:3) What about Acts 1:9-11? One might insist since Jesus left the earth physically, that He must “come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.” (v.11) An equal argument can be made though about Jesus’ coming being invisible. “He was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.” (v.9)
Christ’s “coming on the clouds” is a common metaphor borrowed from Old Testament portrayals of God descending from heaven and coming in power and glory to execute judgment on a people or nation. In all the historic comings of God in judgment, He acted through human armies, or through nature, to bring destruction. “See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt…” (Isa 19:1) For the earthly fulfillment, see Isaiah 20:1-6. Also, “Look! He advances like the clouds, his chariots come like a whirlwind.” (Jer 4:13) “Sing to God, sing praise to his name, extol him who rides on the clouds…” (Ps 68:4) Because of this background, Jesus’ disciples would have understood what He was talking about in his Olivet Discourse about coming back on the “clouds of heaven.” (Mt. 24:30) In all these real biblical comings of God in the Old Testament, God was never physically visible; He was unseen by human eyes! Cloud-coming is the language of divine imagery. Jesus employed the same figure of speech for his end-time prophecies. For Jesus and a 1st century Jew, coming “on the clouds” was not a claim to come visible to the human eye. Jesus did not come in body, yet He was present in judgment in the events of the Roman-Jewish War and the final destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 (Noe, 183-185) Before Jesus’ messianic work no one had ever gone into heaven except Jesus. Upon Jesus’ completed work the resurrection of the saints took place and some actually visited Jerusalem in bodily form. (Mt 27:51-53)
Doesn’t Scriptures say the gospel has to be preached to all nations before Jesus comes again?
In the Olivet Discourse it says “and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” (Mt 24:14) It is likely the writer meant the civilized world at that time which was the Roman world. It seems if the writer meant the entire global world and every individual they would have used the Greek word “kosmos” as used in Mathew 24:21. In Acts 2:5 Paul at Pentecost says: “now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.” Surely, Paul was making a global statement and not intending to mean every individual in every nation. Paul states in his time that the gospel has been proclaimed “to every creature under heaven.” (Col 1:23) The gospel has already been preached to all nations and was not something in the distance future that has to be done before Christ can come again.
Jesus has come! When Christians die, they go to heaven and are not in limbo. We often say “Jesus is with us.” But, how can we say this if He hasn’t returned? Hebrews 9:28 says Jesus will appear a second time not to bear our sin but to bring salvation. Our salvation is not still in limbo. Isn’t our salvation complete as predicted in I Peter 1:5 when Jesus came with the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70? “Who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.” The new earth and heavens have arrived. In A.D. 70 all the old things were fulfilled and transformed anew in Christ. God no longer dwells in temples made with hands. His people are its temples. This heavenly city is the glorious dwelling place of those believers who overcome and keep God’s commandments on His earth. The Holy city’s symbolic description in Revelation 21 and 22 is given to encourage all saints of every generation. We can win this inheritance and enter and live daily in this joy of this community with God. Who wants to miss what we have now in favor of futuristic postponement theologies? Who would want a revival of the old Judaic system, when they have the hope and promise of something better that has replaced it? Our inheritance is more glorious, more powerful, and far more joyful. It’s an incomparable inheritance, and it is here on earth and available in Christ. It’s the ultimate reality, the ultimate community, and the ultimate joy for God’s people here on earth. Read about it anew in Revelation 21 and 22. Are you inside or outside the city? The new Jerusalem awaits! (Noe, 264-265).
Noe suggests a visible coming of Jesus in not mentioned in any historical Christian doctrines until 1560 AD (First Scottish Confessions of Faith). Malachi 4:5-6 says the prophet Elijah will be sent, but clearly this fulfillment was not visible but through the ministry of John the Baptist. (Mt 11:14)
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the Done with Religion site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
In a day when many feel it is the job of the Christian to point out the sins and mistakes of others, I personally do not see Jesus being that way.
Jesus associated with all kinds of people, and he showed love toward them. He was genuinely interested in them and accepted them. That does not mean he always agreed with them, but he accepted them as they were. He treated them with love and respect.
Acceptance does not necessarily mean we agree or condone the actions of another, it just means we are kind, respectful and show the love of God to them. We obviously are not all going to agree on things, yet we should be able to treat one another with kindness.
Many say we must point out the sins of others and warn them of impending doom, or we are not fulfilling our obligation as a Christian. Yet I feel that we are told the Spirit will convict people of changes that should be made. The Spirit will draw people to God. We are not called to do the work of the Spirit, we are called to show the love of God to all people.
Showing love and acceptance to people is more in line with the way Jesus treated others. He did not condemn, he did not hate, he did not associate only for ulterior motives of getting people to join him. In fact, the only people Jesus seemed to have issues with were the religious leaders who thought they were so much holier than others. They were mad at Jesus for associating with people they determined were the sinners and lower class of the day.
For me, rather than point out sins, rather than show condemnation and many times down right hatred towards people, I would rather do what Jesus tells us to do. Love God will all your heart, soul, strength and mind and love your neighbor (all people) as yourself.
Love and acceptance do not mean we agree on everything. We love through the power of the Holy Spirit within us. Love and genuine friendship will draw people into conversations and respect for one another, thus providing an atmosphere where we can all learn from one another and respect one another.
Unfortunately, one of the major issues many Christians seem to have is regarding LGBTQ issues. I am not sure why, but people who consider this to be a sin jump on this issue more than anything. Next is Muslims and immigrants. It is sad that we cannot learn to accept those who do not believe or act just like us and see them as fellow human beings who are loved by God.
As for me, I like to follow this way of thinking. Whether you are LGBTQ affirming or not, whether you are of a different religion or nationality, there is no reason to treat people with hate and contempt. Whatever you think about other groups of people, be respectful, kind and show the love of God to all people.
We are all made in the image of God. We all have our interpretations and opinions. We each must follow what we feel is right for us, but we must not force our views on others.
Accept each other for who we are and follow your convictions for yourself. There is no reason to be hateful toward anyone. We are all loved by God just the way we are now. If there is anything that needs to be corrected or changed in us, the Spirit will gently persuade us in the way we should go. It is not up to people to do the work of the Spirit.
Love and accept others. This means LGBTQ, atheist, people from different religions, races and nationalities. You do not have to agree with them. Show them love. Love makes more of an impact on people than does hatred, condemnation and forcing personal views on them.
Remember we are not told to go force our views and beliefs on others. We are told to love God and love our neighbors as ourselves.
Michael Donahoe created Done with Religion after he and his wife left the institutional church after over fifty years within the system. He wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system, and tell why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. They have now been outside the walls of religion for over fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://deconstructiontrail.substack.com/ and https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/ Michael can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com
I share below some reasons gathered by researchers on the subject. Then, I share why I left the church building but not God. Maybe it will help you to express your experience to others if you have decided to leave..
I wrote here why people possibly deconvert though at one time having faith in God. Many Christian leaders imply those leaving the institutional church are leaving God. DONES are often deconverting from religion not God! One does not have to be involved in a regular Christian community to be a God-follower. I wrote here why I left the religious institution not God. There are many advantages to being a part of a group of people who seek to encourage one another about God. But many of us had to leave the building!
What are some emotional reasons people leave the building?
Packard has done much of the research. Many leave the building due to observed lack of responsible stewardship. 60% of the budget went toward the 90-minute show without serving better those outside the building. Many leave because being preached at doesn’t allow meaningful dialogue. Being so damn certain all the time is hardly relational, especially when even scholars disagree what the Bible says about issues impacting the lives of so many people. Many felt the lack of grace. People weren’t looking to excuse their moral failures, but why can’t we focus less on sexual behaviors and more on the poor, homeless, etc. Who is perfect! People leave for many reasons including abuse by leadership.
People leave for the same intellectual reason others leave the faith all-together
A major factor in leaving the building or God all together is because of views claimed about God. God according to the Bible supposedly condemns gays, burns unbelievers in the afterlife, and thinks women cannot fulfill the same roles as men though just as gifted. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here. See here.See here. It is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. Biblical interpretations that don’t match how you and most know you ought to love your neighbor may be amiss.
Another major intellectual reason is due to certain explanations given for the presence of evil and suffering in our world despite there being a God. It is understandable why many can’t believe in a supposedly, all-powerful God who standbys while one is being raped, tortured, murdered, abused, etc. What kind of parent or God stands by and not intervene when they could prevent such suffering? Maybe a perfect, loving God can’t be controlling just as they can’t be manipulative. Maybe God can’t intervene single-handedly without human help. See Thomas Oord. The alternative is that God can always stop your suffering and doesn’t, or that God arbitrarily stops other’s sufferings sometimes but not yours. I doubt it!
Going forward
In the Bible “Church” was not a building or a place attended once a week. Jesus referred to His followers as being the Church and to encourage and care for one another. The Bible doesn’t tell the Church to go to church. Jesus said “Where two or more are gathered in His name” God would be present. Jesus did not specify where they must gather, what they must do or how they must do it. Simply find environments to encourage and be encouraged to radically love as Jesus did. Personally, in the church if I opened my mouth about disagreements about leadership’s views of what a loving God is like, I felt I was being divisive and pulling others down. I am comfortable disagreeing, but I am not looking to force my views on others. Our relationship with God isn’t about an institution or day of the week. It’s a daily, hourly relationship.
In the Bible often the church (followers/believers) met at one another’s homes. I was expected to go a building, often with a steeple, on Sundays when growing up. Some years my parents took me to a meeting both Sunday morning and night and Wednesday evening. I went to a Sunday meeting on my own in college. I never developed deep relationships with those at these meetings. We took our children to a meeting on Sundays when they were young. We encouraged them to attend smaller meetings within the building with people their own age, but they mostly chose to continue to go to the room where adult sang and listen to preaching. We let our children when older decide whether to go to the meetings on Sunday. At the time I felt going to a meeting on Sundays helped us grow in our relationship with God.
I ended up going to Seminary out of college for one year so of course I continue going to meetings on Sundays. As I got older, I begin to question some things I was taught at these meetings about what the Bible said. For instance, I was always taught a husband was to be a loving leader rather than a loving servant toward his wife. I came to realize best friends don’t need a leader whether married or not. I had seen that “give us men an inch and we will take a mile.” There were other views over the years suggesting what God was really like, such as God being a hellish torturer, which I begin to believe differently than what I was taught.
I begin to experience in meetings, when sharing what I believed, being more divisive than encouraging to fellow followers. I didn’t feel a freedom or openness to believe as God led but to believe what those in authority taught. I wasn’t forced to believe but why attend if not being encouraged to develop your own beliefs. I was better off if I didn’t do “church” and try something different in my relationship with God. I am not sure if I went to church out of guilt all those years, but not going to church didn’t feel like a choice. The institution of church worked for me for years and continues to work for many, but people need to feel free than obligated to pursue God on their own terms. Obligatory relationships are seldom life transforming.
I gained a sense of freedom from obligation when I realized “church” in the Bible was not a building but referred to all individual believers. The Bible suggested followers meet to encourage one another. This can be done anywhere anytime. When followers meet together, they may sing, teach one another, eat, play tennis or whatever is going on in being with one another. Some may want to continue receiving teaching about their faith and attend traditional church for those and other reasons. No one though needs a mediator between God and them such as a pastor or priest.
Church never was a place that I built genuine relationships. I could sit for an hour and not say one word to anyone other than my family. I certainly didn’t share my burdens openly in that meeting. Even attending smaller groups during the week, organized by church leaders for the purpose of building relationships, felt forced. I am not putting down such meetings. I just feel free and wish for other to know they can build a closer relationship with their Creator in ways best for them. Dream! I may again someday attend a building on a certain day of the week with like-minded followers. But I do not feel obligated or believe God thinks any less of me for not doing so. I am better off seeking encouraging, genuine relationships, so I look for such relationships everywhere. They don’t have to be organized and there doesn’t have to be structured leadership. You may feel like I do that I have graduated
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the Done with Religion site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
Understandings and mental views of God shape your belief in God and your relationship with God. God surely delights more in one seeking to know God than the ninety-nine, offended by one’s interpretation of the Bible, who already know their Creator (Lk. 15:3-7). Biblical interpretations must be plausible based on what a loving God should be like.
If you read my Post weekly, you will probably notice I have beat this subject to death. This post is longer than most my Posts, so please hang in there. I want to touch on many themes related to answering this question. I want to combine three last Posts into one here. I want to address who gets into heaven, contrary to claims made by Christians. Do agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians get into heaven? Polls suggest many believe there is an afterlife after death, or at least they hope so. Christians open suggest we can know all there is about the afterlife by reading the Bible. That is suspect because biblical writers were only speculating – God didn’t speak to them directly. Besides, we have to interpret their views since there isn’t universal agreement what the Bible says about heaven and hell.
Who is a believer in God’s eyes? Jesus’ disciples likely believed in a God or what Jesus taught but Jesus only encouraged his disciples and others to follow Him. He didn’t require certain beliefs. I follow what I believe are Jesus’ teachings. Church people often evangelize by focusing on how one can get in heaven/inherit eternal life. Is that really the best approach to those interested to discuss spiritual matters.
Hell No!
Does God really demand we bow the knee or burn in Hell?
There are good reasons to not agree a literal Hell is a reality in the Bible. It seems odd Jesus or Paul who wrote much of the NT didn’t mention Hell at all. See here. Words translated into the English word Hell are likely a metaphor to discourage a loveless life. Terrorists demand belief in their God or they don’t even wait to kill you in the afterlife. Is the God of the Bible really similar, only waiting to kill in the afterlife. The God I believe in isn’t a terroristic God here on earth or in the afterlife. A belief in a literal Hell is likely only to come out of one’s interpretation of a Book they believe is inspired by God accurately proclaiming what God is like, and not one’s imagination of a loving God. My God gave me a brain to imagine what a loving God does to those who don’t believe while living a short time here on earth. See: Hell No! Hell Is a Myth
The Main Biblical Message May Not Be What You Think
Most who read this blog want to know what the Bible says about salvation and entering heaven which we will discuss briefly below. I suspect many reject Christian claims because of the beliefs said to be true of God. Hell is likely a message Christians get wrong. I am convinced a literal Hell is a biblical myth. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. Another myth. See here. See God Loves Gays
But the biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. Hard to believe Hell is the main message if Hell is a myth. See here: What Really Is The Gospel According To The Bible?
Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn 14:6). Did Jesus really mean God only saves those who accept Jesus? Keep in mind the majority of people born into this world have never heard of Jesus or had a Bible. Jesus wasn’t born until the first century. The Bible as we know it today didn’t exist until the fourth century. John 14:6 could easily be interpreted to mean Jesus’ way of life is the best path toward God. The path to God is through love. (See God After Deconstruction, Oord/Fuller Chapter 9). We Christians need to be less condemning and more open to God’s love and message to people of all religions. Your religion doesn’t matter to God. Your religion likely depends on the nation or family born into. See What religion goes to heaven
Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. Jesus in this passage simply said to the leader to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living here on earth by living a loving life empowered by God. Whether one chooses belief in God and possible empowerment is an individual faith choice. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships. See: What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?
Besides, the Bible may claim all can enter heaven anyway regardless of beliefs?
The main message can’t be about God saving us from Hell. There is some biblical evidence, that God is inclusive in the afterlife. In fact, God may welcome all and will attempt to convince them and live with God forever. It is doubtful the main message is one has to believe in Jesus or the Bible. As mentioned, the majority of people born in this world didn’t have access to a Bible or know of Jesus. See: All Will End Up In Heaven According To The Bible
Being a universalist can be biblical: I am a hopeful universalist because God respects one’s freedom to choose their destiny. It is just hard for me to believe anyone would reject God seeing and knowing what God is really like and not wanting to live forever with loved ones. I guess there are the Hitlers out there!
There are rational reasons for our friends to not believe in God?
Let’s be honest. We can’t prove God exist. Why condemn those who struggle to accept if there is a God (agnostic or atheist). Another fair argument about whether God really exist is why then is God so hidden. The idea that if an all-loving God truly exists and wants to have a personal relationship with those open to such a relationship – why doesn’t God make their presence obvious. Such signs could convince many, removing distress and uncertainty. On the other hand, there may be reasonable reasons God is hidden here on earth. See: If God Is Real, Why Then Is God So Hidden?
What the world needs more is love, not more people professing right beliefs or that God is real if not so inclined. God may pursue them in a relationship if one interested. Don’t know! Many have rational reasons to not believe in God. This doesn’t mean God rejects them. The path of love is open to all even atheists and agonists and non-Christians. See: What Does God Think About Believers Trying To Convert Others?
There is one main belief that matters according to all religions
People reject God based on claims about hell, gays and other supposed God-endorsed beliefs. Who blames them? It is important to know what God is really like and that God cares about you in the here and now and not about just the afterlife. Most religions share common ground unless a terrorist including Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism—the Golden rule. Jesus said when asked what the greatest commandment was: “Love God and love your neighbor.” [Matthew 22:36-40] Loving God is following God’s ways, surely meaning loving your neighbor as you wish to be loved. If you believe loving others like you want to be love is central in living, you are good with God. See you in Heaven! None of us act on this belief perfectly.
There are reasonable reasons to not believe in God or at least be skeptical. God gets you! If you don’t believe in the Golden Rule, good luck on your death bed regarding relationships. Want to die with few regrets? Want your relationships to suck, don’t follow the golden rule. Few will show up at your funeral.
Why it Matters
It matters the comfort or lack of comfort you offer others when a loved one dies. No one really knows so why not offer hope. What happens to our loved ones beyond the grave if God was not a part of their life, but they didn’t live like the devil and lived a more moral life than many who claim to trust God? I have summarized reasons why we can hope and give others hope in difficult times that God isn’t a God of chances, depending on where live or family born into: See:
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the Done with Religion site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
I wish to expand on that last Post. Church people often evangelize by focusing on how one can get in heaven/inherit eternal life. Is that really the best approach to those interested to discuss spiritual matters? Polls suggest the majority of people believe in an afterlife. We can only speculate what eternal existence/afterlife with God is like.
What does the Bible actually say about having eternal life?
Many think the overall biblical message about salvation is to avoid Hell and get into heaven, Romans 10:9 is cited often: confess with lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the Dead you will be saved.” But I don’t think the Bible/Jesus/God’s message is dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death. Instead, I am convinced the main biblical message is to start loving now – a path toward great relationships. God’s main desire is for you isn’t about avoiding Hell, but to live a life avoiding regrets by treating others like you want to be treated. See:
The main message isn’t about God saving us to enter Heaven after life on Earth
Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn 14:6). Did Jesus really mean God only saves those who accept Jesus? Keep in mind the majority of people born into this world have never heard of Jesus or had a Bible. Jesus wasn’t born until the first century. The Bible as we know it today didn’t exist until the fourth century. John 14:6 could easily be interpreted to mean Jesus’ way of life is the best path toward God. The path to God is through love. (See God After Deconstruction, Oord/Fuller Chapter 9). We Christians need to be less condemning and more open to God’s love and message to people of all religions. See What religion goes to heaven
Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Whether one chooses belief in God and possible empowerment is an individual choice. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships. See: What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?
Besides can’t all enter heaven anyway regardless of beliefs?
There are possible intuitive and biblical reasons to consider God doesn’t required belief in God to be in his grace. The best way I know to understand God’s love is how I or a parent loves their children. My love isn’t based on if my kids show they love me or believe in my guidance. I can’t stop loving them. Neither can God!
There is some biblical evidence that in the afterlife, God welcomes all and will attempt to convince them and live with God forever. There are rational reasons God doesn’t appear physically here on earth. Beside the majority of people born in this world didn’t have access to a Bible or know of Jesus. See: All Will End Up In Heaven According To The Bible Being a universalist can be biblical: I am a hopeful universalist because ultimately I believe God respects one’s freedom to choose their destiny. It is just hard for me to believe hardly anyone would reject God seeing and knowing what God is really like and not wanting to live forever with loved ones. I guess there are the Hitlers out there!
Hidden argument – reveal yourself God!
Let’s be honest. We can’t prove God exist. Why condemn those who struggle to accept if there is a God (agnostic or atheist). A fair argument about whether God really exist is why then is God so hidden. The idea that if an all-loving God truly exists and wants to have a personal relationship with those desiring such a relationship, why doesn’t God make their presence obvious. Such signs could convince many, removing distress and uncertainty. There may be reasonable reasons God is hidden here on earth. See: If God Is Real, Why Then Is God So Hidden?
What one belief only matters according to all religions?
Many religions claim one main belief. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism—the strongest common ground is treating others well. Jesus said when asked what the greatest commandment was: “Love God and love your neighbor.” [Matthew 22:36-40] Loving God is following God’s ways, surely meaning loving your neighbor as you wish to be loved.
So, do you believe in God or least the golden rule?
If you believe loving others like you want to be loved is central in living, you are good in God’s eyes. None of us act on this belief perfectly. If you don’t believe this, good luck on your death bed regarding relationships. Want to die with few regrets. Follow the golden rule. Want your relationships to suck, don’t follow the golden rule. Few will show up at your funeral.
God’s end goal
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the Done with Religion site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
I recently saw a news article about one group of Christians were picketing another church group. Supposedly they were picketing because they felt the church group, who allowed gays and women who had abortions into their assembly, was being soft on sin.
I can only assume that the picketers thought the gays and the abortion people were too big of sinners to be in with the religious folk.
Seems the church assembly was being more Christ-like to me, but the whole situation made me feel a little ashamed to be called a Christian. In fact, I think it is a good idea to give up being called a Christian. It is just another man-made religion, and I have come to a point in life that I am done with religion. Rather than being called a Christian, I think it makes more sense to say I am a follower of Jesus. He did not start Christianity and he did not come to start any kind of religion.
Being a Christ follower is a daily 24/7 lifestyle, not something to be done once a week in a building. It is not following a doctrine or a set of rules and regulations.
As a Christ follower, we accept all people and we love all people, like Jesus did when he walked this earth.
This does not mean we agree with everyone. It does not mean people can live anyway they want and have fellowship with God. Yet once they come to God, the Spirit comes to live within them, and he will guide them in their daily lives and actions. It is not our job to condemn others. Jesus command under the New Covenant is for us to love God and love others.
Like the picketers and church group mentioned above, a lot of Christians today spend more time fighting and arguing amongst themselves while the world watches and laughs.
As followers of Christ, we need to keep in mind that we, the Church, are the body of Christ in our world. We may be the only “Jesus” many people see. We should focus on Christ as our ultimate source and lay down our personal feelings. Our goal should be more of Him and less of us.
Michael Donahoe created Done with Religion after he and his wife left the institutional church after over fifty years within the system. He wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system, and tell why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. They have now been outside the walls of religion for over fifteen years. He enjoys writing about his experiences and thoughts, and he wants to encourage others who are going through the religious deconstruction process. He also writes on Substack at https://deconstructiontrail.substack.com/ and https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/ Michael can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com
One reason I had to quit calling myself a Christian was when it became associated with being anti-gay, etc. It is hard for many to hear anything positive about God when leaders imply that God and the Bible condemn gays. Leaders fail to admit their interpretation could be wrong, yet they destroy many individuals and families presuming they are right about God’s heart. Leaders must stop implying or presuming God condemns gays for being gay. It is clear leaders’ lack of support. You don’t have to say explicitly what one is implying with their words. Just ask where they stand with God and gays. I am convinced for many it would be a negative stance or “I love you but….”
Leaders should know better
It is seldom admitted literature requires interpretation or one’s interpretation could be wrong, thus one’s understanding of God could be wrong. Even if you believe your Holy Book is inspired by your God, our interpretations are not inspired. Besides, it is rarely admitted that it cannot be proved one’s sacred book is inspired by their God. We cannot prove God inspired every word in the Bible (God controlling what writers/editors thought and recorded). If we did not assume literature is inspired, but rather the writers wrote what they believed was true of their God, we could avoid extremism. If we didn’t assume biblical writers always understood God correctly, this leads to more open discussions what God is really like. See link: Shouldn’t we assume the Bible isn’t inspired by God – all rants against the Bible
God loves gays
Nothing may be more destructive to God’s reputation than when Christian leaders explicitly or implicitly condemn gays in God’s name. Gays no more choose who they are attracted to than straights can? Many gays will tell you they have always been attracted to the same sex. If you are a straight man, don’t you naturally have to fight not looking at naked women than men? Ask gays their battle! Who chooses to be gay when one has to hide their sexuality because of bigotry and hostility See: God Loves Gays
There is real debate if the Bible condemns gay relationships
It is impossible to not feel personally attacked when one utters “I love you but I hate your sin.” Especially if being gay isn’t a sin.
Many, because of their understanding of the Bible, will respond with some version of “I love you; I hate your sin.” This is not a phrase found in the Bible. One is hard pressed to find anywhere in the Bible where this is a recommended strategy in relationships whether the Bible clearly condemns a behavior or not. It is impossible to not feel personally attacked when one utters “I love you but I hate your sin.” What is heard is I or God don’t love you.
But some actions are really harmful
It can be argued that hating alcoholic behavior is loving because alcohol abuse is harmful. Hating homosexual sex is only loving if homosexual sex is sinful. But do we tell a drug abuser that we love them but hate their behaviors? You don’t tell anyone coming for help with their addiction that you love them but hate their behavior. You simply say I love you and let’s do this together. They probably already hate their own behaviors. When someone is overweight, which is a lot of us, should we say “I love you but I hate you are fat?”
Please don’t reject a gay child in God’s name!
Some parents condemn their child because the Bible supposedly does. Not all agree. See here. When there are any doubts what the Bible might be advising, God-followers must take the most compassionate, less judgmental stance toward others. Many parents know in their hearts to not judge their child but they are torn when hearing others claim the Bible condemns homosexuality.
Please stop!
Even if you think God and the Bible condemns gays, please don’t imply or speak for Christians and claim God condemns gays. Leaders seldom state directly God condemns or gayness is a sin but it is implied. Come out and say you don’t know even if you believe being gay is a sin, unless afraid of losing your position or donations. Hopefully, you do that for women’s roles. Surely, you admit there is debate concerning if women can be priests or pastors. This is another topic that breaks my heart when leaders presume their interpretation is inspire to deter women from pursuing their gifts or subjecting a wife under a husband’s authority which often can lead to domestic violence.
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the Done with Religion site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
I have argued ad nauseum about possible lies about God concerning many moral issues. Biblical scholars and laypeople don’t agree on many moral issues according to the Bible. I am convinced many inclined to believe in God but don’t is becauses of claims made about God according to the Bible by those who call themselves Christians. I believe a literal Hell is a biblical myth. . See here. We get wrong that God thinks women can’t serve in the same religious or marriage roles that men can. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. See here.
Is the problem the Bible or interpretation?
It is seldom admitted literature requires interpretation or one’s interpretation could be wrong, thus one’s understanding of God could be wrong. Even if you believe your Holy Book is inspired by your God, our interpretations are not inspired. Besides, it is rarely admitted that it cannot be proved one’s sacred book is inspired by their God. We cannot prove God inspired every word in the Bible (God controlling what writers/editors thought and recorded). If we did not assume literature is inspired, but rather the writers wrote what they believed was true of their God, we could avoid extremism. If we didn’t assume biblical writers always understood God correctly, this leads to more open discussions what God is really like. See link: Shouldn’t we assume the Bible isn’t inspired by God – all rants against the Bible
Leaders should know better
I grew up going to church as a young man. It wasn’t until I attended a year of seminary in my early twenties that I realized Christian leaders had different opinions on many moral issues. I remember being shocked in one of my classes. We reviewed a book that three professors at my seminary wrote together with three different view concerning God and the end times. And God forbid – one professor actually believed and wrote that women could be pastors of churches and be in authority over men. Not all professors agreed.
One of my pastors growing up told me leadership is being certain. I disagree. Pastors rarely admit in the pulpit about their experience in seminary or what they know to be true. Not all agree on interpretation regarding biblical passages that address moral issues. Great leaders don’t have to always be certain. Parents know this. One of my biggest regrets as a parent was being so damn certain of my interpretation of Genesis regarding the beginning of creation when my son came home believing in evolution.
Biggest interpretation error?
The biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. That certainly can’t be true if Hell isn’t real even according to the Bible where such a thought originates. It is important to know that God cares about you here and now and not about just the afterlife. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships. God’s main desire is for you to avoid a life full of regrets. See What Is Main Message Of The Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?
What about eternal life according to the Bible?
Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships.
God only seeks to inspire you to avoid a life full of regrets
We are told the message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself now. You may be different than me, but I get help from God in pursuing a life not full of regrets. Try it! It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us. If you refuse to love, you may end up a lonely, regretful soul.
Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the Done with Religion site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like
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