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What Is Main Message about Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , on November 17, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Hell is certainly a message Christians get wrong. I am convinced a literal Hell is a biblical myth.  See here.  We get wrong that God thinks women can’t serve in the same religious or marriage roles that men can. Another myth. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. Another myth. See here. But the biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. People reject God based on claims about hell, women, or gays. But it is so important to know that God cares about you here and now and not about just the afterlife.

The main message isn’t about a literal Hell somewhere other than on earth

Gehenna, the Greek word translated as Hell in the New Testament, was the name of a real valley near Jerusalem with a history of terrible, ending slaughter.  Gehenna is best translated Gehenna just as Mount Everest is best translated Mount Everest. There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell.” Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible biblically or morally.   See here.  See here. 

The main message isn’t about God saving us to enter Heaven away from Earth 

Jesus taught as if God’s Kingdom was near, not coming in distant future. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mk 9:1) The Good News throughout the Gospels refers to a Kingdom here on earth now. The kingdom of God “has come upon you” (Mt 12:28) and “is in your midst.” (Lk 17:21) The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.”

What about eternal life?

Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships.

What did the earliest Gospel says how Jesus spoke to others? 

I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ main message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living.
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment? 

The Apostle Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death (Rm. 7:11). Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6). The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What about life after death?

We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. It is reasonable to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

God only seeks to inspire you to avoid a life full of regrets

We are told the message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself now. You may be different than me, but I get help from God in pursuing a life not full of regrets. Try it! It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us.  If you refuse to love, you may end up a lonely, regretful soul.

What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Why I Am Done with Religion

Posted in christian living, deconstruction, institutional church, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , on November 13, 2024|

by Glenn Hager

As my relationship with the church and my religion came into question, my world unraveled, because church was my world. I was pastor for over twenty years and loved all things church. I constantly read books about how to do church better. My friends were all church members and pastors, and my life was consumed by church services and church meetings and my pastoral calling was my north star in life.

What happened? Through the years, one-by-one cracks began to form in the relationship between me and the church until finally we went our separate ways. Those cracks were quiet questions that I did not allow myself to pursue.

As I pastored a fledgling church in a small town already saturated with churches of the same denomination, I wondered, “why so many churches?” A crack began to form.

I could have had a great career at another church, if I just pandered to folks with some old-fashioned preaching and music, and back-slapping. I couldn’t do it. It seemed they wanted all the ministry directed toward themselves with little concern for those outside the fold. The crack was getting more defined.

I felt I needed a more serious congregation with more involved leadership. That desire took us to a church in a large suburb of Chicago which had become an Anglo Island in a Hispanic community. It was a congregation populated by seminary students, old fundamentalists, and younger evangelicals. With its inner division and transitioned neighborhood, it was a nightmare to lead.

Finally, after several painful years and several existing members leaving, it became an authentic ministry with great community and an updated worship style. Yet, as a Hispanic congregation shared our building and thrived, it was obvious we were in the wrong location.

During our move to temporary quarters in a more suburban and English-speaking setting, a key couple took it on themselves to share their discontent with others. It resulted in our small group becoming even smaller. After some time of meeting in our home, we disbanded. The betrayal pried open the crack even further. For the first time in my adult life, I was not a pastor, and I was undone.

In the years after, we hosted a house church of young adults in our living room, attended another house church, helped-out a couple churches with their welcoming ministry and community-wide outreach. Eventually, it seemed unlikely that I would ever find a church that aligned with my vision. That vision included a heart for the outsider and a willingness to try new avenues of acceptance and community.

The crack had become a gaping canyon.

These cracks or questions were more like a feeling that I wouldn’t allow myself to feel… until I had to. When I did, I was shocked at how wide the crack had become and I was lost, homeless, and frustrated that I had been so unsuccessful as a church leader.

I got to the point where I wanted nothing to do with the church games, but deeply longed for something that is real. When I thought about Jesus, the more I saw there was also a gaping crack between him and what the church had become.

That irony is overwhelming.

Glenn Hager is a former pastor, newspaper columnist, magazine contributor, blogger (glennhager.com), and author of two books. He also designs lighting (http://doo-dads.com/). Glenn and his wife, Patty live in northeastern Illinois.

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I Am Done With…

Posted in deconstruction, institutional church, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , on November 7, 2024|

by Glenn Hager

This is one of the easiest and most cathartic posts I have ever written. It’s easy because I can clearly catalog the characteristics of evangelical religion that are distasteful to me.

Since I write this at the peak fervor of our presidential campaign, Evangelical entanglement with politics immediately comes to mind.

There seems to be a confusion about kingdoms. Christ’s kingdom and all the kingdoms of this world are vastly different. One is a kingdom of love and the others are kingdoms of power.

Earthly kingdoms are about control, Christ’s kingdom is about influence, the way we live our lives and love people. Earthly kingdoms are about enforcing laws, Christ’s is about love and changing hearts. Earthly kingdoms are about war, Christ’s is about peace with God and one another. Earthly kingdoms are about mandating rules, Christ’s is about choosing his ways from the heart.

Christian Nationalism is an attempt to use earthly kingdoms to force on people what some determine to be Christian values. It’s like trying to mix oil and water. They are in opposition to one another. You cannot legislate or mandate a changed heart. It opens the door for politicians to adopt a few socially conservative policies, do lip service to religion, and use a couple of evangelical buzz words to get elected.

During the January 6th riots, I was as shocked as any American to witness the violent assault of the very heart of our government after being ginned-up by a man whose ego and was so huge but so fragile that he would assault our very democracy to try to be “a winner” (really a looser).

In the violent chaos flags were waving, the American Flag, the Don’t Tread on Me Flag (Gadsden Flag), the Confederate Flag, the Trump Flag, and the Christian Flag. These flags represent the elements of Christian Nationalism. They are a toxic cocktail that confuses patriotism, individualism, racism, cultism, and religion. It looks nothing like Jesus and everything like an authoritarian political movement that is destroying the witness of the church.

Folks who are not in the club, don’t get it. They wonder, “Why are Christians so hateful, so unloving, so bent on forcing their views on others.” Even they know that is not at all like Christ. This movement exposes a hypocrisy of a superficial faith defined by a few slogans, that hates its enemies, and ignores the obvious faults of its champion (not Christ).

Christianity has become an exclusive club for the already convinced. So, churches hire a charismatic pastor and staff, build an impressive building, and offer a wide array of programs to keep the sheep happy and proud of what they have. They think the bigger all of this gets, the more successful the church must be. They rely on these assets, the buildings and staff.  With all the salaries and the mortgage, it takes a lot of money to keep the sheep happy.

Every church has a little different idea about how to do church, hence the countless varieties, sometimes at the same intersection, like fast food outlets.

Pastors and leaders have unrealistic expectations placed on them. A few are egomaniacs. Most are simply trying to fulfill their calling and keep the flock happy. Almost none can be honest about their feelings and struggles with anyone in the congregation because they are expected to be above mortal temptations (unlike the congregants). They are not, as proven by the numerous scandals involving members of the clergy.

Too many churches and associations of churches have become self-centered, politically affiliated rest homes for the long-since convinced with little concern for those who need to see the Gospel in action.

I join the millions who are done with that.

But it doesn’t mean we are done with Jesus.

Glenn Hager is a former pastor, newspaper columnist, magazine contributor, blogger (glennhager.com), and author of two books. He also designs lighting (http://doo-dads.com/). Glenn and his wife, Patty live in northeastern Illinois.

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Is The Bible Really The Word Of God?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, Word of God, tagged , , , , , , on October 27, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

We often hear claims that the Bible is “THE WORD OF GOD.” A perfect, loving God can’t lie, so one may assume that all the Bible claims about God is true. But the Bible can’t be the definitive word about God since subject to interpretation (different scholarly views of the same passages). Besides, we can’t prove God controlled if the writers always accurately portrayed God.

The truth is we can’t prove God inspired the Bible 

The biggest proof often given to suggest God inspired perfect thoughts written down is because the Bible claims that to be so (i.e. 2 Tim 2:16). But this passage has several different interpretations. Anyway, a Book isn’t proven to be inspired because it claims to be inspired. Those who claim God’s inspired the Bible would not accept the Koran to be divinely inspired because it makes such claims. It seems fair to ask if divine inspiration is so important and God is that controlling, why didn’t God preserve original manuscripts to remove doubts of editorial errors?

Even if God controlled everything written in the Bible . . . 

Even if we could prove the writers of the Bible always understood God perfectly, we can’t claim our interpretations are perfect. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what God believes about many moral values. See here.  See here.  See here. Gays are often condemned, women’s leadership roles are limited despite their gifts, and it is suggested a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels – all in God’s name. Extremists often will advocate killing infidels in this life because they believe their Holy Book is inspired by God and of course their interpretation is the right one.

So, how do we know what God is like? 

Over half the people born into this world didn’t have a Bible. Were they all clueless what a loving God would be like? If we can question if writers always understood God perfectly, we can naturally wonder if God’s actions would ever violate our moral intuitions of a loving God. See here.  If a loving Creator exists, which is the only God worth believing it, it is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly? Self-evident morals aren’t hidden in any Holy Book. We all have an inborn sense of good and evil. Our moral intuitions, unless you are a terrorist, aren’t the enemy! 

Why bother to read the Bible if can’t prove God approved all written? 

It doesn’t matter if you believe the Bible is inspired. You still must interpret the Bible and you may be right or possibly wrong. Uncertainty is a fact of life unless my son or son-in laws mistreat women! The Bible is God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in other documents. God may have inspired/encouraged the writers to write but didn’t necessarily approve of everything written about God. Enjoy what God is trying to reveal to you about your Creator and how to treat others. Insights contrary to how you know you ought to love your neighbor may be amiss. A Book must not replace our relationship with God and common moral sense. Questioning the Bible may lead to knowing God better!

Is The Bible Really The Word Of God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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10 Books That Changed My Life!

Posted in Bible, christian living, religion, tagged , , , , on October 20, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Who the heck am I that may influence what you may read! I enjoy reading other people’s list of books that excite them. I may discover a Book that I didn’t know about. The title of a Book doesn’t always peak one’s interest to read. I add a brief comment of each book suggested to see if that relates to what you are seeking to know more about God. It’s hard to only list 10 books but I narrowed my list from 30 favorite books that have had the greatest influence in being a better, more thoughtful person, God-follower. I have probably read over a thousand books. I am convinced reading the thoughts of others is the path toward wisdom.

  1. Ruth Tucker: Black And White Bible, Black And Blue Wife: My Story Of Finding Hope After Domestic Abuse – I had no idea the most influential woman scholar in my life regarding what the Bible really says about women’s roles had suffered such abuse. You can’t go wrong reading any of her books about the Bible and women’s roles. There is no way God limits women in the home, church, or public. You haven’t met my wife, daughters, and women I know! 
  1. Thomas Oord: God Can’t. Dr. Oord provides the most loving, moral explanation of why God can’t intervene more in evil and suffering though God is dying to do so. The biggest reason why many hesitate to believe in God, though inclined to believe, is there is so much evil in the world 
  1. David Gushee: Changing Our Mind. Finally, a leading Christian scholar and ethicist comes out and admits the Bible can’t be used to declare God condemns gays. Amen!
  1. Eric Seibert: Disturbing Divine Behaviors. I believe Seibert offers a more rational, loving explanation as to how we should understand biblical texts where God is depicted as acting irrationally, violently, or destructively 
  1. I H Marshall: Kept by the Power of God. I had to include this book for sentimental reasons. One of the first books I read many decades ago that freed me from having to believe God elects and love only certain people thus limiting God’s grace. Damn Calvin theology! I am convinced Calvin’s views are exegetically and morally bankrupt
  1. Craig Keener – Paul, Women, and Wives – Marriage And Women’s Ministry In The Letters of Paul. Finally, a biblical scholar who disputes that the Apostle Paul, a main writer of New Testament books, doesn’t necessarily defend women being prevented to serve in leadership roles in the church or that marriages shouldn’t be mutually submissive as opposed to a male being the leader
  1. Garry Frieson & J. Robin Maxson: Decision Making And The Will Of God: A Biblical Alternative To the Traditional View. Another book read many decades ago began the pilgrimage of understanding how God’s guides and that indeed the future is not a specific script. One doesn’t have to worry or be anxious that they are missing God’s will, like I did in my twenties
  1. Richard Rice: God’s Foreknowledge and Man’s Free Will. This book is one of the most precise books on the freedom of God and how this means the future is open. Our future is not predetermined, thus God is not somehow looking into future evil and suffering and doing nothing
  1. Michele Weiner Davis: Divorce Busting. You can’t go wrong reading any of her books on relationships. As a counselor she empowered me to go down the road in search of solutions for couples rather than a regurgitation of problems which is often a dead end
  1. John Rosemond: Teen-Proofing – Fostering Responsible Decision Making In Your Teenager. Can’t go wrong reading any of Rosemond’s books on parenting. He helped me to understand how to not piss my kids off unnecessarily, thus possibly leading to a better relationship during challenging teen times

10 Books That Changed My Life!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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My Christian Leadership Story

Posted in Bible, christian living, institutional church, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , on October 2, 2024|

by Michael Donahoe

I grew up in the traditional, organized church. I was always taught that the pastor was head of the church, and he had all the answers and so much more knowledge than anyone else in the church. I mention the pastor as a ‘he’ because when I was young and growing up in the church it was unheard of to have a woman pastor.

I remember scheduling meetings with the pastor so I could ask him questions and find out all the answers to Christian living. It almost floored me one time when I asked the pastor a question and he actually said he did not know the answer.

Looking back, I can see that I certainly looked to the pastor rather than looking to the Spirit. I was putting my hope in a man that I thought could tell me everything about God, yet I was not seeking to know God himself.

Next in line were the board of elders. Each of them were so much more holy than I or anyone else in the church or else they would not be in that position of authority. At least that is what I thought at the time. I have a friend who thinks prayers have more authority when she goes to the board of elders and has them pray.

Questioning Christian Leadership

The longer I was in the church, the more I began to wonder about things. Of course I did not dare ask the questions I had since people would be questioning my faith, or think I was questioning the pastor.

When I read that Christ was the head of His church, I wondered why the pastor seemed to get credit for that position.

I read that we should call no one father (or pastor) other than God, and I again wondered why people in position of leadership and authority in the church wanted to be called pastor or apostle or elder.

We are told that the Holy Spirit is our guide and teacher, and we do not need anyone other than him. Yet, we look to the pastor, or an elder, or some big name evangelist to find all the answers to our questions.

I began getting dissatisfied with having these questions and not letting them surface enough to come out and be asked. I began to realize I had more and more questions, and fewer and fewer answers.

I finally started coming across books and websites of people who seemed to be in the same boat. They were wondering and questioning and being open with their questions. Some of them seemed to actually come up with some answers that made sense to me.

The more I thought, questioned, and read, the more I began to realize that our traditional church system is really not what God intended for the church. I also realized that questioning is not a lack of faith. God can handle our questioning; in fact, most of the time Jesus taught more with questions than answers. He wanted people to question and reason over things.

True Christian Leadership

The true Church that Jesus is building is not a brick and mortar place. The head of the Church that Jesus is building is not a pastor, pope, elder, or apostle. In fact, the head is not a man or woman at all.

Leadership in the Church of Jesus is not what we have always thought of either. When we realize Christ is the head and leader of his Church, we begin to realize that man has no business demanding or expecting people to follow them and put them in the place of Christ.

True Christian leadership is not an office of authority. It is not a place for only a few who are specially trained at a man-made Bible school. True Christian leadership is for all of us who are members of the Church of Christ. We are all kings and priests; we are all holy and righteous because of Christ. To be clear, when I say Church of Christ, I’m not talking about any denomination or physical building. The true Church is a community of people who are following Christ, and He is our head. All the rest of us, men and women alike, are equally functioning body parts of his Church.

My Christian leadership story

No person has a place of authority over another. That is the world’s way of doing things. That is the business way of doing things. Needless to say, there are a lot of churches and religious organizations that are acting like big business with their presidents and CEO’s, but that is not how it should be.

Christian Leadership as God intended is the Spirit working through the different body parts, leading by example. They are encouragers and teachers from a place of love and experience, not a place of authority and power. Each of us are leaders at one time or another in this sense of leading by example, experience, and love. We come in contact with those who need encouragement or a little guidance, not from someone who thinks they know it all, but from someone who has been there. A person who, out of love, wants to see the best for everyone.

True Christian leaders will not demand your loyalty. They will not want your allegiance to them. They will not rule over you with authority and expect you to follow them no matter what. True leaders will want to lead you to the head and true leader of the Church, Jesus. It is time we stop looking to men and women as our guides and leaders, and look to Jesus. We need to listen for the leading, guidance, and teaching of the Holy Spirit who is actually God within us, rather than seeking the knowledge and wisdom of mere men.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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Why Doesn’t God Prevent Evil And My Suffering?

Posted in christian living, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , on September 29, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Many don’t have more of a relationship with God because they can’t justify why an all-loving, all-powerful God doesn’t prevent more evil in this world. Anyone inclined to believe in a God likely believe such a God must be all-loving. No other God is worth believing in! So, why doesn’t a supposed all-loving/powerful God intervene in evil or suffering more than they do. Any human parent that has the power to prevent a rape, murder, sexual assault and doesn’t isn’t truly loving. Why would we judge God any differently if a Creator surely created us to love like them?

If God Is All-Powerful …. 

Most who have grown up in the institutional church have been taught that God is all-powerful. God can cause miracles without any human help or cooperation. It seems only intuitive that an all-powerful God can control suffering if able to create, be in all places at one time, resurrect Jesus from the dead, etc. But it is obvious God doesn’t answer many prayers to relieve suffering.  One may claim God is all-powerful or Omnipotent to show respect, but a God acting arbitrarily toward human suffering isn’t easy to answer – unless blame unanswered prayer due to one’s sins.

Maybe God can’t be all-powerful 

A less popular assumption is that God can’t be all-powerful. Logically, how can God be all-powerful and humans have some freedom/power? Besides, a perfect God’s love can’t be all-powerful. See here. Suffering (prayer unanswered) may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly. God can’t physically interfere in evil or suffering without human help. See here.

Don’t miracles prove God is all-powerful? 

I believe in the possibility of miracles but lots of prayers asking for healing aren’t answered. Is God’s love infrequent or arbitrary? Do miracles not happen because some people are less sinful or beg better at the feet of an arbitrary God? I believe a better explanation for healings is that various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells and organs.  If God doesn’t deny human freedom, it may not be a stretch to say God has to account for natural freedom as well. Perhaps miracles can happen when God’s love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God cannot intervene singlehandedly, but a loving God always wants to intervene whenever circumstances will allow. 

Who do you imagine God is like?

The Bible can’t be the definitive word on God since subject to interpretation and questioning if God agrees with all written about God. We are free to speculate. Most Bible-quoting folks believe we are made in the image of God. If a Creator exists, perhaps that Creator informs us through our moral intuitions how we ought to love others. Image bearers should act as we think a loving God/human parent should act. I am convinced God is always seeking to intervene when possible.  We don’t have to assume God can answer our prayers but doesn’t for some unknown reason. God suffers with us, but the unfortunate truth in a free world is suffering happens. Lean on God and others for emotional support and encouragement in difficult times.

Why Doesn’t God Prevent Evil And My Suffering?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Shouldn’t Christians Stop Being So Damn Certain!

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , on September 22, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

One of my biggest regrets in my journey with God is being so damn certain when younger. I was certain evolution was false because the Bible supposedly claimed so. I was so certain Jesus’ main message was how to avoid Hell. It is never too late to change. I tried to make amends when possible, especially with my children, but unfortunately such a reputation sometimes lingers with those you are closest too. In the past I used the poor excuse that my certainty was just being passionate. I wish I had known the advantages of not coming off as a “know it all (certain).” I am responsibility for my actions, but I also had no role models who led by being open-minded.

The truth is biblical scholars aren’t certain about God and moral issues

Many claim that God tortures those forever in the afterlife if reject God here on earth, that God rejects women in leadership roles, and God condemn others for being attracted to the same gender. Who can blame others for rejecting a God contrary to our moral intuitions! One’s view of God is often based on one’s interpretation of the Bible or belief that the biblical writers understood God perfectly. We can’t prove the biblical writers were always right about God but even if the writers had perfect understanding, the Bible is subject to interpretation. The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.

There are sound philosophical reasons to not be certain if God exist

We can’t be certain about God’s true character much less if God exist. Whether one believes in a God has an obvious faith component. Let’s not accuse those who believe in a God as needing a crutch or accuse those, who question the reality of an invisible God, as being wicked and ignorant of their feelings. If wrong to doubt God exists, Christians sin if doubt God in tough times.

Some rightly can’t understand what a good God – the only God worth believing in – doesn’t intervene more in this world with evil. I have suggested a possible explanation here as espoused by biblical scholar Thomas Oord. It makes the most sense to me, but it may not satisfy you or others. People that don’t accept apologetic reasons given for God and evil are not being rebellious.  Also, why is God so hidden if God truly wants us to believe in God. There are plausible explanations but let’s not condemn those who reject any argument put forth. Save confrontations for those who say “I don’t care if there is a God. I will treat others however the hell I want to.” 

Can we be certain of anything?

Certainty is an illusion unless talking about universal moral sins such as rape or incest. Adultery isn’t only wrong in the eyes of the betrayer. I am convinced all know how a loving human should act, whether they never had a Bible (majority born in this world) or don’t believe in God. Many decisions are not black and white and require open debate. May the best, most common-sense position win. One must have the freedom to decide what is the best decision for themselves, or the powerful rule the powerless. It is common to hear one argue “The Bible says” without adding “according to my understanding.” As mentioned, the truth is contrary biblical interpretations exist for many moral issues.

Uncertainty can be a good thing!

Truth is often not known but to be pursued. If you find one rational person that has a difference of opinion from your own, you should consider their opinion. I don’t care if it concerns the safety of vaccines, climate solutions, whether Hell literal exist, or if God condemns gays. We often don’t recognize what doesn’t work in our personal relationships doesn’t work in the public arena either. Partners who act as if they are always right and their partner is wrong are headed toward divorce or a sucky relationship. Having good intentions by believing you are right for the whole doesn’t matter when certainty isn’t universal. Open discussions can lead to a greater good for the most. Imagine a world:

  • If we were open to defending our beliefs civilly
  • If we closely guarded one’s freedom to choose when the possibility exist you could be wrong
  • If we stopped calling those who disagreed with us heretics or conspiracists
  • If politicians encouraged open discussions to better discern together the greatest good for all
  • If Christians didn’t always claim their biblical interpretation is correct

Shouldn’t Christians Stop Being So Damn Certain!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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How Do You Decide What God Is Really Like?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , on August 18, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

I try to answer this question often in my blogs over the years. After all, I named my personal blog some 15 years ago “What God May Really Be Like.” I use the word “may” because I got tired of preachers always being certain what God is like. I recognized such an attitude because I offended enough people early on being so damn certain! I ended up leaving the institutional church because religious folks often assume their interpretation of the Bible was correct and can’t discuss differences. My moral intuitions didn’t always agree with their interpretation.

It matters what you think God is like

Our understanding of God can determine the depth of our relationship with God and how we might treat others. If God really created Hell, we may think we should emulate God in our attempts to judge and punish. If God condemns gays, we will condemn gays out of devotion to God. If we believe God thinks men have authority over women at home or in church, that will filter down to our wives, daughters, and friends and stifle their gifts. See It Matters If Your God Is Nurturing Or Authoritative!

You can’t always depend on the Bible

Some interpret the Bible to claim God condemns gays. Others who have the same respect for Scriptures interpret the Bible not condemning monogamous gay relationships. See here. Sometimes, biblical writers seem to contradict one another. Hebrews 10:26 says: “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left.” But I John 1:7 says “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” So, did the Cross forgive us from our ongoing addictions, though we know we are hurting ourselves and others? Or are we screwed in God’s eyes if we continue willful behaviors after we see “the light?”

God must be perfect!

I imagine anyone who believes in a God/Creator thinks that such a Spirit must be perfectly moral. No other God is worth believing in. If you believe in a Creator, surely you assume such a perfect Creator would create us in their image? I think the best analogy to a perfect God is what a perfect Mother or Father is like. We all have a clue being a child of parents. Now, knowing perfection isn’t always black and white. Does justice for the victim’s family include capital punishment? Should I allow my child to hit bottom in their addiction or intervene. It may depend on their age I suppose. But should I allow my son to be abusive to his dates? Hell hath no fury!

Trust your moral intuitions unless . . . 

If your biblical interpretation is contra to your moral intuitions, why would God create you to intuitively feel differently? You can also assume that maybe biblical writers didn’t always understand God perfectly at the time. Do you think your God believes that you have authority over the opposite gender that they don’t have over you (I am talking to you men), please reconsider! Give me an inch and I may take a mile. We don’t always know what a perfect God would do. But a place to begin in imagining what God is like is how you believe you ought to treat others – unless you are a terrorist that relies on your interpretation of a supposed inspired Book!

How Do You Decide What God Is Really Like?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Did A Miracle Save Trump?

Posted in christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , on July 28, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

It has been claimed that God protected Trump by a miracle from being killed on July 13th. Franklin Graham, perhaps the most well-known Christian leader, claimed that God saved President Trump from being killed. Proclamations such as these raises many questions about God’s character in the minds of many.

Why doesn’t God intervene more often?

Why did God supposedly intervene in saving Trump but not Corey Comperatore. Mr. Comperatore was the gentleman who shielded his family from being shot and was killed at the July 13 rally. Miracle proclamations only lead to implying God didn’t care to save his life for some unknown/mysterious reason. It implies God only cares to spare certain people from being murdered or raped but not others.

What possibly leads to thinking God’s love is arbitrary?

Many Bible-folks assume God is all-powerful, which demands an answer to why God displays Their power or not. Why God acts arbitrarily isn’t easy to answer if God is truly loving, unless you always blame unanswered prayer due to one’s sins. Often, it is proclaimed God’s ways are higher than ours and God is working it all out for good. Tell that to a woman raped! It may also be suggested that we sinners have no right to question a Holy God, or that any good is more than we deserve since God’s standard is perfection and we all fall short as sinners. Some relationship!

God can’t be all-powerful

It is natural to think that an all-powerful God can control suffering if able to create, be in all places at one time, resurrect Jesus from the dead, etc. But, logically how can God be all-powerful and humans have some freedom/power? Suffering (prayer unanswered) may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly. Controlling love is an oxymoron. God can’t physically interfere in evil or suffering without human help. See here.

Miracles

Lots of prayers asking for healing are obviously not answered. Is God’s love infrequent or arbitrary? Do miracles not happen because some people are less sinful or beg better at the feet of an arbitrary God? I believe a better explanation for healings is that various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells and organs.  If God doesn’t deny human freedom, it may not be a stretch to say God has to account for natural freedom as well. Perhaps miracles can happen when God’s love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God cannot intervene singlehandedly, but a loving God is dying to intervene whenever circumstances will allow. 

How does God intervene? 

God intervenes through people. Securities measures could have been better at Trump’s rally to lessen the chance of a horrible crime. God could have intervened if the assassin didn’t choose to believe that he was somehow doing the world a favor by supposedly taking an evil man out who has been compared to Hitler. All politicians should stick to attacking their opponent’s policies. It was by chance that Trump turned his head to look at a chart that allowed the bullet to pierce his ear than skull. God is in the influence business with people doing the right thing.

Did A Miracle Save Trump?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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