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Getting Saved Isn’t About Going to Heaven or Hell!

Posted in christian living, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on January 12, 2025|

By Mike Edwards

I wrote recently here  what might be the greatest misunderstanding about God and getting saved. Christians often emphasize the main message about God and the Bible is avoiding hell and getting to heaven by saying the sinner’s prayer: “God, forgive me for my sins and thank you for dying on the Cross to pay the price for my wrongdoing.” No such prayer is found in the Bible. Recently, I failed to include the greatest objection below to what I am claiming – that the Apostle Paul, who wrote a lot of the New Testament, supposedly spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer. It is important because we may be misrepresenting God’s main message to us.

The main message can’t be about avoiding Hell 

I bet if you ask most non-church people what church people say is important about the Christian faith, they will talk about getting saved to go to heaven to avoid hell. The main message can’t be about Hell which doesn’t literally exist. See 12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth! There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell,” only possibly words used as metaphors to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What did Jesus say about eternal life? 

Jesus never spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer to make others feel secure about the afterlife. True, he couldn’t talk about the purpose of the Cross since hadn’t happen, but Jesus message seem to be more about the here and now, not trying to terrify you about the afterlife. When Jesus was asked how to have eternal life, Jesus didn’t speak about a physical destiny but life here on earth. (Lk.10:25-37) Jesus simply answered the question “love God and your neighbor,” speaking more about the quality than quantity of life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife.

When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living. When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees, pray, and ask for forgiveness! Jesus encouraged loving God because Jesus knew that leads to loving others.  The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. He might never see her again. Where was Jesus evangelical spiel?

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment?

It is argued that Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death. (Rm. 7:11) Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6).

God wasn’t so pissed to require Jesus’ death than yours

To insist God required Jesus be murdered on the Cross in place of you isn’t Godly or parental love. Google “theological views of Jesus’ death” for many interpretations about Jesus’ death. Did Jesus and the Romans have no choice but to murder Jesus for an unjust cause? Soldiers die for one another because of a cause they believe in. Jesus thought his message was worth dying for. Jesus accepting death than powering over others may be the reason billions have been influenced to live unselfishly. Jesus wanted to change our attitude about God, not to change God’s attitude toward us. What kind of God sees how the world has turned out and doesn’t just say the Hell with it, but instead enters such a world to experience underserved suffering via the Cross to inspire and relate? 

What really is God’s salvation?

Jesus spoke of a life, worth living, empowered by God, for your good and those you have relationships with. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as deep down you wish you could. I get help from God in pursuing a life with less regrets, of being the husband, father, friend, and man I truly want to be. It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us. God’s influence, though invisible, can be the same as a parent who has left this earth that you believed loved you to the fullest. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now with God’s help – a path toward great relationships.  

Getting Saved Isn’t About Going To Heaven Or Hell!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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What One Lie About God May Be The Most Harmful?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on January 5, 2025|

By Mike Edwards

I wrote recently 13 Lies according to one’s understanding of the Bible that I believe do the most harm to God’s reputation, thus turning many away from God. The problem isn’t the Bible but one’s view of the Bible. When one believes God inspired/approved all written about God in the Bible, they assume the biblical writers always portrayed God accurately. Furthermore, many go a step further and assume their interpretation is the right one, but ancient literature is always subject to interpretation.

Unbelievers, women, and gays

There is no doubt the following lies have impacted millions if not billions over history – that God created a forever, torturous hell for beliefs held for a brief time while living on earth, that God is bias thinking women can’t serve in religious or marriages roles that men can, that God condemns gays for an attraction choice they no more control than do straights. Many have rejected God based on claims made about hell, women, or gays. See 13 Lies

What may be the most harmful lie about God according to the Bible? 

It is often claimed and assumed that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. The main message can’t be about Hell which doesn’t literally exist. There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell,” only possibly words used as metaphors to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. Even when Jesus was asked how to have eternal life, Jesus didn’t speak about a physical destiny but life here on earth. (Lk.10:25-37) Jesus simply answered the question “love God and your neighbor,” speaking more about the quality than quantity of life. God cares more about you here and now, not trying to terrify you about the afterlife if you don’t believe.

God is so pissed to require your death isn’t the main message about the Cross

To insist God required Jesus be murdered on the Cross in place of you isn’t Godly or parental love. Google “theological views of Jesus’ death” for many interpretations about Jesus’ death. Did Jesus and the Romans have no choice but to murder Jesus for an unjust cause? Soldiers die for one another because of a cause they believe in. Jesus thought his message was worth dying for. Jesus accepting death than powering over others may be the reason billions have been influenced to live unselfishly. Jesus wanted to change our attitude about God, not to change God’s attitude toward us. What kind of God sees how the world has turned out and doesn’t just say the Hell with it, but instead enters such a world to experience underserved suffering via the Cross to inspire and relate? 

What really is God’s salvation?

Jesus spoke of a life, worth living, empowered by God, for your good and those you have relationships with. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you wish you could deep down. I get help from God in pursuing a life with less regrets, of being the husband, father, friend, and man I truly want to be. It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us. God’s influence, though invisible, can be the same as a parent who has left this earth that you believed loved you to the fullest.

What One Lie About God May Be the Most Harmful?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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What Is Main Message about Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , on November 17, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Hell is certainly a message Christians get wrong. I am convinced a literal Hell is a biblical myth.  See here.  We get wrong that God thinks women can’t serve in the same religious or marriage roles that men can. Another myth. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. Another myth. See here. But the biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. People reject God based on claims about hell, women, or gays. But it is so important to know that God cares about you here and now and not about just the afterlife.

The main message isn’t about a literal Hell somewhere other than on earth

Gehenna, the Greek word translated as Hell in the New Testament, was the name of a real valley near Jerusalem with a history of terrible, ending slaughter.  Gehenna is best translated Gehenna just as Mount Everest is best translated Mount Everest. There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell.” Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible biblically or morally.   See here.  See here. 

The main message isn’t about God saving us to enter Heaven away from Earth 

Jesus taught as if God’s Kingdom was near, not coming in distant future. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mk 9:1) The Good News throughout the Gospels refers to a Kingdom here on earth now. The kingdom of God “has come upon you” (Mt 12:28) and “is in your midst.” (Lk 17:21) The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.”

What about eternal life?

Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships.

What did the earliest Gospel says how Jesus spoke to others? 

I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ main message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living.
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment? 

The Apostle Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death (Rm. 7:11). Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6). The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What about life after death?

We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. It is reasonable to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

God only seeks to inspire you to avoid a life full of regrets

We are told the message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself now. You may be different than me, but I get help from God in pursuing a life not full of regrets. Try it! It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us.  If you refuse to love, you may end up a lonely, regretful soul.

What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Who Goes To Heaven?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , on November 10, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

I don’t believe the main message of the Bible and Jesus is about saving you from Hell so you can enter Heaven, but most of us wonder what happens after death. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. Jesus seemed more focused on life here on earth than life after death. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us (John 16), not waiting to be rescued from earth to heaven. Besides, the Bible’s message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell.

Hell is morally and biblically impossible! 

Many who believe God exist suggest God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever.

The Bible might even declare all go to heaven

It is suggested by many religious leaders that according to the Bible some go to hell and some go to heaven, though doubtful a literal Hell exist. Some may suggest that some will simply die and others go to heaven. The problem is the Bible, being literature, requires interpretation. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

What did Jesus say about heaven or eternal life?

The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.” Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). The emphasis appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help!

More of what Jesus said through the eyes of Mark

Most Christians believe to understand Jesus is to understand God. I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus seemingly sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. I don’t see any message to the disciples other than living a life worth living.
  • Jesus said “Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3:35) Being close to God or Jesus isn’t claiming certain beliefs or traditions; Jesus simply encouraged actions that lead to loving others as yourself. “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.” (Mark 9:35)
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are similar to when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Why not live like hell here on earth?

One may think that if Hell isn’t a reality and who knows about Heaven – why not live our sinful fantasies? I experience such actions end up in misery. I know I am a better husband, father, and friend because of God’s influence. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Decide on short or long-term happiness. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. 

What’s next in afterlife?

The Bible suggests, whether having faith here on earth or not, all will be judged. After death God may bring to memory actions of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death. We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves.

Who Goes To Heaven?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , , on May 12, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

You may not want to read this Post if you never question or doubt if God is real, if everything the Bible claims about God is true, and you are convinced hell or heaven is a certainty. For some though it is normal to struggle to believe in an invisible God, to wonder if Jesus really resurrected from the dead since they weren’t there. No one can prove if there is really an afterlife after death. God never informed Old Testament writers of such a place. See here. Some may have questions after hearing different opinions in biblical scholarship. Many didn’t grow up with religious teaching and so rightly wonder claims made by religious folks. Is there a reason to follow God with so many doubts or questions?

What if I am not sure the stories of Jesus resurrected from the dead are true?

I currently am convinced Jesus’ resurrection isn’t legend and has historical verification, but others may not. I don’t believe God hates me if I change my mind. Jesus’ disciples didn’t believe Jesus was coming back from the dead, despite witnessing Jesus’ miracles beforehand, until seeking Jesus after his death with their own eyes. I would like to think many of us seeing a man or woman coming back from the grave, after killed on a cross, would be convinced.  I have a hunch God cares the most that you believe in the possibility of a loving God to begin a faith journey.

Who was Jesus really?

One may read, if not reading only conservative Christian viewpoints, that the Jesus’ sayings for accuracy in the Gospels has many problems. After all, the biblical writers wrote 40 years later what Jesus supposedly said through oral traditions handed down. You should read what my kids claim I said decades ago! Maybe it doesn’t matter if the biblical writers 40 years later recorded Jesus’ words exactly. Today, we take things so literally. Maybe back in NT times, they were writing not for historical accuracy but weaving a story about what they thought Jesus was trying to teach (the meaning behind the text).

Does the Bible always get God right?

Ever read the Bible closely. Claims made about God don’t seem like a loving God. Leaders tout that God inspired/approved all written in the Bible, yet some actions contributed to God by the writers make no moral sense. Unfortunately, newcomers will be directed to read the Bible and be horrified reading about some of God’s supposed actions. Rationalizations are given to explain such actions about God to protect God’s inspiration of the Bible (writers understood God perfectly). I suggest instead considering if biblical writers always understood God correctly.  See here.

Is following God worth it with so many questions?

I am convinced living a godly life is worth it, even if God doesn’t exist. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! You may have fun but your loved ones won’t. God only wants to help pursuing a life not full of regrets. Personally, following what I believe a loving God to be like has inspired and encouraged me to be the person I desire to be. The journey is worth it. Most are convinced Jesus was a very real person who lived in the first century. Let’s debate his teachings. We are often told the main message of the Bible is Jesus coming to save you from Hell. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. What do we have to lose treating one another like we want to be treated?

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Becoming a Religious Heretic – Part 1

Posted in Bible, christian living, institutional church, Jesus follower, Kingdom of God, Love of God, religion, The church, Word of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , on April 17, 2024|

by Jim Gordon

Yes, I admit it. I have become a religious heretic. So, what is a heretic? According to the dictionary, it is a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted; the formal denial or doubt of a core doctrine of the Christian faith as defined by one or more of the Christian churches.

First let me say, the following are my thoughts and opinions. I am not saying I am right or wrong, but is where I am at now. I have changed my views over the past several years, and I will most likely change my views over the next several years. We are all entitled to our opinions and we should accept each other with the opinions we have. We certainly will not all agree.

After spending nearly sixty years in the institutional church (including from the time my parents took me as a baby and young child), my wife and I left the organization because we no longer felt we could completely agree with many of the church doctrines and generally accepted ways of the church. What led up to this decision was the many years within the church that taught me some things that I finally had to question.

I remember I went to church whenever the doors were open. I felt that I was going to God’s house and the Spirit may fall during a service and I did not want to miss it. I felt the pastor was well trained in spiritual matters and he was the middleman between God and me. I looked to the pastor for all the answers and to teach me more about God and what I should be doing.

Obviously, I believed that Christianity was the only way to know God and to be a true follower of Jesus. I always thought that Jesus came to start a new religion that would be the only correct way to follow him and only those who followed that religion would be saved.

I always held the Bible in very high regard. I felt it was dictated by God to humans, who carefully wrote everything down so we would have a perfect book about God. It was a love story and a rule book that would guide us each day of our lives. I believed the Bible was the true, inerrant and perfect word of God and it was clear on what it said.

I was one who believed people needed to get right with God or they would end up in Hell after they passed from this earth. Hell was created for the Devil and his angels, but people who rejected God would end up there also. Hell was also a great way to make people afraid enough to make a decision for Christ and boost church attendance.

How many times have we been told that God is our father, a male figure sitting on a throne in Heaven watching down on us, just waiting for us to mess up so he can punish us. If God did not see Jesus in us, then we were all doomed. Even Jesus called him father, so what else could he be?

Now, after becoming totally unsatisfied with what I had always been taught, I started to ask questions and seek answers from someone other than the pastor. I found books and podcasts of others who had other interpretations and views that really made sense. I found many people who had left the institution and were asking questions and finding answers other than the traditional ones the church always taught.

I came to see that church is not God’s house after-all, and the Spirit does not fall at specific places or at certain times. We the people are the church. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit who came to live within us once and for all. The Kingdom of God is within us. The church as we know it is just a building where people meet to fellowship and learn about God, but it is not necessary to attend and there is nothing wrong with not attending if you so choose.

I know there are many religions in the world and that Christianity was not started by Jesus. It is just another man-made organization, but based on the person of Jesus. There are many religions and I believe we can learn from each of them. I believe if Jesus walked the earth today, he would not be a Christian nor attend a church. He would be accepting of all people no matter their personal religious beliefs.

I found that the Bible never claims to be the Word of God, and never claims to be inerrant. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and our guide. John wrote that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. He also added the word became flesh and dwelt among us. That certainly is not a book. We can learn from the Bible because it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, yet it is not dictated by God and it is not inerrant. I personally feel that the Bible has a lot of allegory and parables that point out spiritual truth, but it is not always actual events.

In regard to hell, I began to wonder how can a God of love create such a place. In the Bible, when it talks about hell (actually Gehenna) it was talking about a dumping ground/sacrificial area outside of Jerusalem. The idea of such a place has its origins in early Christianity, where those who rejected Christ were threatened with eternal torture in a lake of fire, called Tartarus or Gehenna (from Greek mythology and a nearby trash pit, respectively). I think that the theory of hell was started by the early church as a scare tactic to bring people into the church. Hell is a fear-based topic, but we know that perfect love casts out fear. Love draws and there is nothing about love in the theory of hell.

I believe that God is not some super-hero man sitting in heaven watching down on everyone. God is Spirit and the Spirit of God lives within us. God does have male and female traits, but God is not a male nor female. We are the temple; the Spirit of God lives within us. Could it be that the writers of the Bible were following what was common in their day, where women were property and only men were worthy. Did they use their prejudices when writing what would become the Bible by referring to God as male and Father? Personally, I think so. It is all written from a male perspective.

So, as you can see, I am definitely considered a heretic among the traditional Christian church-goers. I have no ill-will toward any of them. At one point, I was where they are now in my beliefs, but I no longer accept or follow the traditional doctrines taught within most churches today. I do follow the example of Jesus of loving God and loving others.

Obviously, these are all only my opinions and views. I may be right or I may be wrong. I do not force these views on anyone else. Each of us are free to chose for ourselves what we believe. What we are to do is love one another even in our differences, accept each other as we are and live life trying to help and encourage our fellow human beings along the way.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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Jesus Didn’t Die To Save You From Hell – Why Then?

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on April 7, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Has the real Gospel been hijacked? Church folks have been told forever that Jesus’ life and death on the Cross was to spare us from going to Hell to appease God’s anger about our sins. Can human, much less spiritual relationships, be built on fear and anger rather than love and grace? No wonder many don’t want to talk to us God-folks. We are too busy trying to save them from a fiery afterlife rather than discussing how God’s presence in our life now helps us become more the person we desire to become deep down. Godly living in this world leads to a meaningful life with less regrets.  

Jesus’ message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell and getting into Heaven 

Many of us who attended the institutional church were taught that God’s main mission was to save us from hell so we could go to heaven after death here on earth. All we had to do was say a prayer: “Thank you Jesus for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive me. I receive You as my Lord and Savior. Help me to live for you.” I can find no place in the Bible where Jesus advised such a prayer or demanded certain confessions to follow Him. The Good News couldn’t be about escaping a fiery, torturous God if such a hell isn’t biblical. See here.

Did Jesus really die on the Cross to appease God’s anger? 

Biblical scholars with interpretation expertise suggest many explanations about Jesus’ death. See here.  It seems to me that we may still be talking about Jesus’ life about love, because He was willing to die rather than power over others. Jesus’ death rather than His power has inspired billions to live unselfishly. Terrorists blow others up for a message they feel strongly about. Jesus only blew Himself up for a message He believed very strongly in – seek God’s help in loving others like you want to be loved.

  • If Jesus had to die to appease God, why did Jesus pray to not have to die (Mt. 26:39)?
  • How does an innocent person suffering really atone for another person’s sins? It doesn’t make “loving sense” to forgive a child by punishing another child.
  • If Jesus’ death was required for forgiveness, why in the OT did God often forgive the Israelites? In the New Testament Jesus forgave others before dying on the Cross (Mt. 9:2; Lk. 7:48, etc.)

God cares the most about helping us to do good not evil in our relationships

Understand Jesus, understand God! Jesus didn’t speak of a certain prayer to repeat. Jesus commended Zacchaeus for recognizing a journey necessary to avoid personal destruction. Salvation is not a future destination but a currently reality (Lk 19). Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8). When Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life, He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). Loving God leads to loving others. Jesus hung with the despised to reveal God’s love for all. Jesus confronted the religious who kept laws but didn’t follow Jesus with their heart. Jesus sought changes of the heart for the good of the world.

How can God help us? 

A relationship with God isn’t a future but current reality. Surely a loving God seeks to encourage us to pursue heavenly than worldly ways here on earth. God seeks to empower us to be the unselfish people we deep down desire to be. Maybe Jesus thought dying unjustly, rather than miraculously jumping off the Cross, revealed evil and God’s willingness to suffer with us and help. Who kills someone for simply claiming to be God? Many of us need to feel forgiven for the behaviors we have committed. God is dying to forgive you of wrong doing in hopes to inspire you to change for your interests and the interests of others.

Jesus Didn’t Die To Save You From Hell – Why Then?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth!

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , on January 28, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

No one knows definitively what awaits us after death. Not all scholars agree the English word “Hell” translated from Greek in the Bible suggested a fiery, torturous afterlife. It is wisest to assume a fiery, tortuous afterlife doesn’t await many. It can only traumatize young people. It leads many to atheism. Who wants to follow a God that tortures unbelievers? It is important we speak out against this theology of Hell when so much uncertainty exist. A Pew Poll suggests 58% believe in Hell as a place of everlasting torture. Many more evangelical Christians believe and they are encouraged to evangelize their friends.

Hell was never mentioned as a consequence during warnings of Global punishments 

Set aside whether you believe Genesis should be read literally as opposed to metaphorically to convey a spiritual truth. Adam and Eve were warned of death if ate from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. This decision supposedly set up billions after them to fall into the same sin. No warning of Hell! Noah warned of a global destructive flood for evil behaviors. No warning of Hell! Old Testaments prophets warned their people to stop destructive actions but never mentioned Hell. It seems cruel by God not warning if such serious consequences really existed.

Hell is never mentioned in all of the Old Testament

Hell is never mentioned once in the OT as a place for infidels. The Hebrew word “Sheol” is only mentioned as an abode for all the dead, believers or unbelievers, and was not mentioned as a place of judgment. There is not one mention about punishment being eternal in the OT.

The word for Hell in the New Testament doesn’t suggest eternal punishment

A literal Hell in the afterlife is nowhere to be found in the Bible. The English word “Hell” is a translation of the Greek word Gehenna. Jesus spoke of a place called Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) outside of Jerusalem. Corpse were burned not kept alive. This is how you know interpretations have gone to hell. A metaphor, illustrating the destructiveness of sin, is used to push fear to obey or you are lit on fire and kept alive.

Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8). Where was Jesus’ evangelical spiel if he didn’t see this woman again? Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life. Jesus spoke of how to start living here on earth not what awaited in the afterlife. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself. You don’t have to drop to your knees and say a prayer to get “in” with God. You only have to want God’s help. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. 

Writers Paul and John never mentioned Hell

The Apostles Paul and John recorded much of the New Testament. They didn’t even mention Hell once, much less punishment being eternal. James used a word other than Gehenna once; otherwise only Jesus referred to Hell (Gehenna).

The Lake of Fire in Revelation doesn’t even suggest a fiery, torturous punishment

Fire in the Bible is used more metaphorically than a literal fire where people are tortured forever after death. If dragons with seven heads are considered figuratively in Revelation, why wouldn’t the Lake of Fire be a metaphor? Revelation only suggests believers and unbelievers will face some kind of judgment after death. Fire is used in the New Testament for judgment and discipline but not to destroy or burn forever in flames (I Cor 3:14-15; 12:7-11). 

The threat of Hell is relationally ludicrous 

God’s continual encouragement and mercy, not the fear of Hell or gloomy uncertainty of God’s favor, is our necessary nourishment for lasting changes of the heart. How real is faith if only to avoid Hell? Genuine changes result when knowing you are deeply loved by a parent or God empowering you to reflect such love to others. The Cross reveals our ugly nature not God’s anger for appeasement. Who kills a man simply for claiming to be God? Go ahead and live like Hell while on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life.

Heaven can’t be a place of happiness if loved ones are living a torturous existence

Unless God denies us freedom, how can we truly be happy when millions, including loved ones, are being burned forever. If God has such power/control over happiness, why not use the same power over rebelliousness.

Hell is neither just or necessary 

Hitler is condemned for torturing millions of Jews for a time; God is said to condemn billions and torture forever. This makes God immoral. Torture doesn’t bring back a victim’s robbed memories of the future due to the murder of a loved one. Real justice is understanding your victim’s pain and accepting the harmfulness of your actions. After death God may bring to memory every unrepented action of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. We can have less concerns about justice in the future by accepting God’s influence in our life here on earth.

Hell doesn’t solve evil

It is claimed God will eventually conquer evil. If evildoers live a torturous existence forever, how exactly did God solve evil?

Hell is an impossible free choice

For a minute forget about the Hitler example and think of family and friends who don’t believe in God or follow Jesus the way you do. They may score higher on the morality scale than you. It is possible that God gives one ultimately freedom to choose their destiny after life here on earth. See here. It isn’t rationally possible in the afterlife to choose hell/torture in one’s right mind over Heaven. No one puts their hand in a fire and leaves it there. We would call them insane, not truly free. If Hell was true, a loving God would be obligated to make sure one understood this reality. 

God can’t be all-knowing and there be a Hell 

Many who argue for the reality of Hell, because of the Bible, suggest that same Bible reveals God is all-knowing including knowing the future. I have claimed that God’s can’t know the future if freedom is genuine. See here.  If God somehow knew the future, that means God created knowing millions would burn in Hell forever. It may be suggested that is one’s choice, but I argued above no one would freely choose Hell. You can’t convince me that God would ever create a human being if Hell was a reality. I wouldn’t have children if I knew their destination was Hell.

God giving up isn’t conceivable

Can God really stop being forgiving? Human parents can’t despite their imperfections. There are consequences in this life and there may be painful reckonings in the life to come, but God can’t stop showing grace. Why would God have a complete character lobotomy after we take our last breath here on earth? Is a thief going to enter Paradise but not others with lesser sins because they weren’t next to Jesus hanging on Cross right before their last breath? God’s grace doesn’t depend on whether one has more opportunities to respond to God than others.

God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t biblical much less morally possible!

12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth!

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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5 Lies About God Turn Many Away From God!

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , , , , on December 24, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

Lies may be too strong a word. I can’t prove with certainty what God’s views are regarding women’s roles, gays, etc. But it is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. All rational humans seem to have the same internal moral code – to love others like they want to be loved. The Bible can’t be the definitive word about God because scholars don’t all agree what the Bible claims about God on many moral issues. We also can’t prove God controlled prophets or writers to always understand God perfectly. We can imagine what a loving God is like though our moral consciences. See here.

God does not torture or kill infidels 

We know bad religion when we see it. Any religion that advocates or excuses those, who don’t accept their belief, being killed in this life is evil. Christianity must avoid having any comparisons with such a religion. A loving God can’t possible light infidels on fire and then not letting them die in the afterlife. Christians must reject such a view of Hell. Now, when one meets their Creator and rejects living a loving/godly life, I can see them being allowed to pass on into final death. I wrote that Hell (a place of forever punishment) is doubtful biblically and even morally from a loving God. See here.   See here.

God does not condemn gays for attractions they have no control over

How could a loving God possibly condemn gays when they can no more choose who they are attracted to than straights can? If you are a straight man, don’t you naturally have to fight not looking at naked women than men? Ask gays their battle! Who chooses to be gay when having to hide one’s sexuality because of bigotry and hostility? Even if you believe God inspired every word in the Bible and agrees with all written about God, not all biblical scholars interpret that Bible condemning monogamous gay relationships. See here. I am begging you to not condemn gays because the Bible supposedly does. Please be open to the possibility that you may be wrong.

God does not believe only men can serve certain roles 

Women suffer violence because some claim the Bible says God wants women submissive to men in ways men are not similarly submissive to women. It doesn’t matter all men don’t take a mile when given an inch. Enough do! Many women can obviously feel disrespected and confused why a supposedly loving God would choose according to gender than gifts in serving in the religious institutes. Men, walk in their shoes if you had certain leadership gifts. Most would agree it is immoral to favor one based on the color of their skin. Intuitively, to favor men over women for particular roles seems sexist. Scholars don’t agree how the Bible should be interpreted on roles for women in the home or church. See here.

God does not exclude infidels from Heaven after death 

One’s religion or rebellion against a certain religion is often based on the family born into whether it is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. Is God a God of chance? A loving God wouldn’t only let Christians into heaven when the majority of people born into this world died without knowledge of Jesus the Christ. No human or spiritual parent brings children into the world requiring that one’s eternal destination is based on circumstances out of one’s control. Only extremists believe you must adhere to a certain religion in this life or the life to come or be killed. Even the Bible possibly suggests all will eventually end up in Heaven. See here.

God can’t control evil or your suffering

One of the biggest reasons for being an atheist is because of the presence of evil in our world. Some suggest God doesn’t intervene in evil or suffering because all evil eventually leads to good, as if some grand plan by God. Tell that to sexual abuse victims or family members of murdered victims. We must consider that God can’t be all-powerful. Perfect love can’t be controlling. Ask any adult child. Evil and your suffering may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly without being controlling. Such freedom by God is necessary for authentic relationships to develop. Forced love is an oxymoron. God is surely doing all they can to stop suffering with the help of others. The alternative is that God can always stop your suffering and doesn’t, or that God arbitrarily stops other’s sufferings sometimes but not yours. I doubt it! 

How can we stop turning people away from God? 

I believe if we at least stopped claiming certainty in God’s name regarding gays, women’ roles in marriage or in church, or the destiny of those who don’t choose a certain religion in this life are destined to never be with God in the afterlife, we would have more open conversations and reveal more the loving God we believe in. Your interpretation may be wrong, so stay openminded. Christian leaders – show some courage and change your stance. You may not agree with my interpretations, but I will admit my interpretation could be wrong if you will. Don’t claim you have God all figured out according to a Book. Yes, we can claim God hates evil such as physical or sexual abuse, but for example listen to each gay’s story and love them like you would want to be loved if you had the same journey.

5 Lies About God Turn Many Away From God!

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Why Bother Telling Others About God If All Going To Heaven?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on October 1, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

In theological circles, arguments are made that a belief in Universalism (all are going to be saved any way and go to heaven after death) makes evangelism (encouraging others to have a relationship with God) pointless. I wrote about Universalism here.  There are biblical and moral reasons to argue for the possibility that all will be eventually saved in this life or in the life after death. I am not convinced such a belief makes influencing others toward God a wasted endeavor.

First of all Hell as a reason for faith is doubtful

I wrote that Hell (a place of forever punishment) is doubtful biblically and even morally from a loving God. See here.   See here.  The institutional church often teaches that God’s main mission is to save us from hell, so we could go to heaven after death here on earth. All we have to do is say a prayer: “Thank you Jesus for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive me. I receive You as my Lord and Savior. Help me to live for you.” I can find no place in the Bible where Jesus advised such a prayer or demanded certain confessions to follow Him. The threat of Hell can’t possibly lead to a genuine relationship with God. Who wouldn’t just say the prayer to avoid torture?

Why then encourage others to consider faith in God here on earth? 

The Bible seems to suggest God seeks to empower us to be the unselfish people we deep down desire to be. Jesus sought to inspire others to seek God’s help in loving others for the good of the world. Jesus simply commended Zacchaeus for recognizing a journey necessary to avoid personal destruction because of sin. Salvation is not a future destination but a current reality (Lk 19).  Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8).  A relationship with God isn’t a future but current reality. Surely a loving God seeks to encourage us to pursue heavenly than worldly ways here on earth for our own happiness.

Why not live like hell here on earth?

I have been under God’s influence most of my life. I’m not necessarily more moral than many who don’t have a relationship with God. I am positive though I am a better husband, father, and friend because of God’s influence. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Decide on short or long-term happiness. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come.

What’s next?

The Bible talks about everyone, whether having faith here on earth or not, will be judged. After death God may bring to memory actions of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death. We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves.

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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