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Posts Tagged ‘Love of God’

By Mike Edwards

I wasn’t sure what to title this Post. “Does” is more personal but “can” speaks to whether God is able to control our suffering in the first place. We must decide if God can or can’t control suffering to consider why God does or doesn’t control our suffering. It seems only intuitive that an all-powerful God can control suffering if able to create, be in all places at one time, resurrect Jesus from the dead, etc. It is also obvious God doesn’t answer many prayers to relieve suffering.  One may claim God is all-powerful or Omnipotent to show respect toward God, but can a God who is supposedly perfect be controlling?

God can’t control your suffering logically 

How can God be all-powerful, yet humans have some power or control? Even the Bible insist love does not insist on its own way. (I Cor 13:5) In God’s defense it just is not logically possible for God to create freedom unless there is the possibility of love and hate. If God could stop a bullet, that doesn’t change the gun holder. God can’t solve human selfishness. It is worth considering that God can’t be all-powerful or controlling and be true to God’s nature. Evil and suffering in the world may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly without being controlling. God can’t interfere in suffering without human help.

God can’t “allow” your suffering morally 

We must come up with a better explanation that God simply allows – thus controls – evils but doesn’t cause evils. A God who can prevent evil but doesn’t is counter-intuitive to love. No loving parent or God sits idly by when they could prevent tragedies such as rape or murder. Please stop with “all evil eventually leads to good” as if some grand plan by God! Ask sexual abuse victims or family members of murdered victims. We are left to believe God doesn’t care, God is punishing us, or God has abandoned us and left us clueless what the grand plan is.   

Don’t miracles prove God is all-powerful despite freedom? 

Lots of prayers asking for healing aren’t answered. Is God’s love infrequent or arbitrary? Do miracles not happen because some people are less sinful or beg better at the feet of an arbitrary God? I believe a better explanation for healings is that various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells and organs.  If God doesn’t deny human freedom, it may not be a stretch to say God has to account for natural freedom as well. Perhaps miracles can happen when God’s love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God cannot intervene singlehandedly, but God surely intervenes whenever circumstances will allow.

A less powerful, controlling God may be good news! 

In our suffering we don’t have to feel God doesn’t care or that God could do something and doesn’t. God knows and empathizes with us in our suffering. God obviously grieves due to all the evil in the world. God suffered when Jesus was crucified. God suggested through Jesus’ example and words what kind of life lived by all here on earth can make for a much grander world. God doesn’t derive pleasure by seeing us in pain but the unfortunate truth in a free world is suffering enables me to better help and influence others that our prosperous times don’t. Martin Luther King’s suffering moved the scales from the eyes of many how they tolerated bigotry. Jesus’ miracles turn heads but Jesus’ suffering changed the hearts of billions of followers.

Can And Does God Control Your Suffering?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

Many are inclined to believe a good God exist but rightly question why then so much evil in the world exists. It doesn’t help some of the explanations given by Christian leaders. A great deal of suffering is either self-inflicted or inflicted upon us by others because of personal evil. Abuse, adultery, and addiction are decisions that cause harm relationally or individually. Freedom doesn’t always explain why an all-powerful God doesn’t intervene more often, especially when evil doesn’t lead to any good in the future.

Freedom is a good thing 

It is not logically possible for God to create freedom unless there is the possibility of love or hate.  Human parents hope their children freely reciprocate their love than being forced. Without freedom we could accuse God of not creating the very best world where only true, authentic relationships can develop. Freedom also allows humans to develop qualities of moral character that cannot be created initially. Freedom though cannot guarantee a pain free universe.

But, why doesn’t a supposedly all-powerful God intervene more often?

Freedom can explain why much of evil exist, but why doesn’t God intervene more often if all-powerful? It cannot be argued all evil leads to a greater good. Physical abuse can lead to the cycle continuing for generations. Lots of prayers asking for healing are obviously not answered. Is God’s love infrequent? Do miracles only happen because some people are less sinful or beg better at the feet of an arbitrary God?

A possible better explanation for healings is that various biological and environmental factors are involved such as cells and organs.  If God doesn’t deny human freedom, it may not be a stretch to say God has to account for natural freedom as well. It may not be a stretch to suggest miracles can happen when God’s love aligns with countless factors known and not known. God cannot intervene singlehandedly, but God surely intervenes by all means possible when circumstances will allow.

Typical rationalizations to defend an all-controlling God include:

  • It is claimed a mystery how God can allow evil but not be evil. Humans don’t get a free pass if they can stop evil but don’t. Some claim all evil eventually leads to good as if some grand plan by God. Hardly! Ask sexual abuse victims or family members of murdered victims.
  • We sinners have no right to question a Holy God. This is not the moral of the story of Job
  • Any good is grace and more than we deserve since God’s standard is perfection and we all fall short as sinners. Then, my sinful parents loved better than such a supposed loving God!
  • God doesn’t have to be fair because They are God! It is nonsense to suggest God requires impartiality in us but not of Themself (James 2:1)

We may have to accept God isn’t all-powerful

A God who can prevent evil but doesn’t is counter-intuitive to love. It is worth considering that God can’t be all-powerful or controlling and be true to God’s nature. Controlling love is an oxymoron. How can God be all-powerful and creatures have some freedom? Evil and suffering in the world may be because God cannot intervene single-handedly without being controlling. God can’t interfere in suffering without human help.

It may be more comforting for some to believe God can’t control their suffering than God sits idly by. One can stop questioning if they are being faithful enough. We can believe though that God empowers and inspires others to choose to do good. God knows and empathizes with us in our suffering. God obviously grieves due to all the evil in the world. God suffered when Jesus was crucified. God suggested through Jesus’ example and words what kind of life lived by all here on earth can make for a much grander world.

How Is It Possible A Good God, Evil, And Suffering Co-Exist?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Jim Gordon

After being in the organized church for well over fifty years and seeing all the different denominations, beliefs and interpretations, one thing makes me sad. That one thing is to see so many followers of Jesus fight and argue over the different paths we take in our walk with God.

Now that is not saying that all roads lead to God, but while trusting in God and following the example of Jesus, we are going to take many different paths during our life here on earth. We are going to be different from other followers of Jesus, but we are following the same example.

Those of us outside the institutional church should not divide and separate ourselves into us versus them groups. In the same manner, those who are part of the modern-day church should not look down on and separate from those outside the institution. We need to accept that we both love God and are following the example of Jesus along the path that is for us.

I think this is what working out our salvation means. Not that we have to work to earn our salvation, but we continually learn as we follow the example of Jesus in our salvation. We, as Christ followers, will take different paths in our walk with God. We should not expect everyone to walk the same path.

I think this also relates to religion. Jesus was not a Christian and Christianity is not the only religion that leads to God. Many people follow different religions and quite often that is based on where they were born. As an example, most people born in the middle east follow Judaism or Islam. People born in the far east follow Confucianism or Taoism. People of the Indian (India) descent follow Hinduism or Buddhism. Can God draw people from each of these religions? Of course! Religion is not the answer. We were all created in the image of God and God loves the world.

We are to be accepting, loving and kind to all we have contact with each day. It seems we are more concerned about acting and believing the exact same things and following what we think is right. If we do not live that way, we want to fight, argue and separate ourselves rather than accept that God works in each of us in different ways. God made each of us differently, and God leads us along different paths as we walk toward a common goal.

Rather than expect everyone to be just like us, let us start loving one another the way Jesus loved people while he walked the earth. We should not let different religions, interpretations and ways of walking with God be a stumbling block to a loving fellowship with one another.

Besides, we are not going to show anyone how to follow the example of Jesus when all they see is arguing, disagreements and separation among those following Jesus. We will not be good examples of the love of God by insisting people conform to our way of thinking and following our rules and interpretations. The only way people will know we have something worth checking out is when they see those following the example of Jesus loving one another, caring for one another, building one another other up and being loving and kind to those who walk a different path.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

I experience God being such an encourager in helping me to be more the person I desire to be deep down. If you are inclined to believe in God and you don’t feel God’s encouragement, it may be your views of God. See here. Christians often feel an obligation to share God with others because being taught God’s message was believe or go to Hell. Was that how Jesus interacted with others?

How did Jesus interact with others?

Many, including me, are convinced to understand Jesus is to understand God. Jesus encouraged his twelve disciples simply to follow Him. They didn’t all believe right away until Jesus proved himself. Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8). Where was Jesus’ evangelical spiel to avoid Hell? Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). I have a hunch Jesus thought loving God would lead to loving others. Jesus’ example and message wasn’t about escaping Hell but avoiding the destructive consequences of sin in this life. God can help in such a journey.   

How has God acted in convincing others? 

I suspect God is a respecter of one choosing their beliefs. Evil in the world clearly reveals God doesn’t force compliance, or there wouldn’t be so much horrific evil in this world. God obviously understands what we humans know – freedom is necessary for authenticity. Not even God can force true love. If you are thinking God eventually “gets you” in the afterlife by sending unbelievers to Hell, I doubt it.  See here.  

Christians must avoid the “agenda” reputation

Conversations with God-followers often feels like them trying to change your beliefs. We all hate when our partner doesn’t listen and just wants to give advice. One reason many avoid spiritual discussions is because they can smell a hidden agenda a mile away. It’s wrong to engage in friendships with others for the purpose of converting them to believe as you do, without advising upfront your agenda. Christians must avoid the appearance of having a hidden agenda. Conversations need to be natural and mutual.

How can Christians represent or share God?

God may not speak to us demonstratively out of love. Just because earthly parents sometime know and advise what is best for their older child, such advice doesn’t always work out. In fact, overzealousness can lead to a child feeling controlled, thus rejecting what is best for one’s own good. We must be considerate in our discussions about God with others. The road traveled of learning, reflecting, and not being pressured can lead to lasting convictions and more meaningful human and spiritual relationships. We don’t have to feel guilty because we aren’t convincing others about God and their love for them. Most Christians believe God has influential power. God believers can relax and simply share their personal experience if an opportunity naturally arises!

Should Christians Try To Convince Others About God?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

You may not want to read this Post if you never question or doubt if God is real, if everything the Bible claims about God is true, and you are convinced hell or heaven is a certainty. For some though it is normal to struggle to believe in an invisible God, to wonder if Jesus really resurrected from the dead since they weren’t there. No one can prove if there is really an afterlife after death. God never informed Old Testament writers of such a place. See here. Some may have questions after hearing different opinions in biblical scholarship. Many didn’t grow up with religious teaching and so rightly wonder claims made by religious folks. Is there a reason to follow God with so many doubts or questions?

What if I am not sure the stories of Jesus resurrected from the dead are true?

I currently am convinced Jesus’ resurrection isn’t legend and has historical verification, but others may not. I don’t believe God hates me if I change my mind. Jesus’ disciples didn’t believe Jesus was coming back from the dead, despite witnessing Jesus’ miracles beforehand, until seeking Jesus after his death with their own eyes. I would like to think many of us seeing a man or woman coming back from the grave, after killed on a cross, would be convinced.  I have a hunch God cares the most that you believe in the possibility of a loving God to begin a faith journey.

Who was Jesus really?

One may read, if not reading only conservative Christian viewpoints, that the Jesus’ sayings for accuracy in the Gospels has many problems. After all, the biblical writers wrote 40 years later what Jesus supposedly said through oral traditions handed down. You should read what my kids claim I said decades ago! Maybe it doesn’t matter if the biblical writers 40 years later recorded Jesus’ words exactly. Today, we take things so literally. Maybe back in NT times, they were writing not for historical accuracy but weaving a story about what they thought Jesus was trying to teach (the meaning behind the text).

Does the Bible always get God right?

Ever read the Bible closely. Claims made about God don’t seem like a loving God. Leaders tout that God inspired/approved all written in the Bible, yet some actions contributed to God by the writers make no moral sense. Unfortunately, newcomers will be directed to read the Bible and be horrified reading about some of God’s supposed actions. Rationalizations are given to explain such actions about God to protect God’s inspiration of the Bible (writers understood God perfectly). I suggest instead considering if biblical writers always understood God correctly.  See here.

Is following God worth it with so many questions?

I am convinced living a godly life is worth it, even if God doesn’t exist. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! You may have fun but your loved ones won’t. God only wants to help pursuing a life not full of regrets. Personally, following what I believe a loving God to be like has inspired and encouraged me to be the person I desire to be. The journey is worth it. Most are convinced Jesus was a very real person who lived in the first century. Let’s debate his teachings. We are often told the main message of the Bible is Jesus coming to save you from Hell. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. What do we have to lose treating one another like we want to be treated?

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

The Founders of America referred to God/Creator in the Declaration of Independence. They also referred to the “Laws of Nature.” The Founders fled to have freedom from Government control or tyranny, so they certainly would advocate for freedom of religious beliefs or that atheists shouldn’t be discriminated against. Christians leaders and others are often falsely accused of forcing beliefs on others by declaring their Christian heritage, but Christians aren’t always careful in their language. Declaring we are a Christian nation implies lack of freedom in religious beliefs.

A Christian label doesn’t respect God’s freedom of belief 

The presence of so much evil in the world suggests God has given us freedom to choose from the beginning. God understood forced love is an oxymoron. Without freedom we could accuse God of not creating the very best world where only true, authentic relationships can develop. It may be suggested that God eventually gets you by lighting infidels on fire and not allowing it to burn out in the afterlife. Christians must reject such a view of Hell. Now, when one meets their Creator and rejects living a loving/godly life, I can see them being allowed to pass into final death. I wrote here that Hell (a place of forever punishment) is doubtful biblically and morally from a loving God.

Even Jesus didn’t advocate for a Christian nation 

Most Christians argue that to understand Jesus is to understand God. Jesus didn’t attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire to establish a “Christian” nation. Jesus came to influence others to love as they want to be loved. Jesus spoke how to start living here on earth, not what awaited in the afterlife, when asked how to have eternal life. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk10:25-37). Jesus knew loving God led to loving your neighbor. If one is so inclined, they can ask for God’s help in living a meaningful life here on earth.

Christians often assume truth only comes from a Book 

How can there be a Christian nation if Christians disagree what such a worldview is? Christian leaders of companies or religious institutes often claim they are guided or adhere to biblical principles. This implies biblical understandings are agreed upon by all who follow the Bible, and non-followers have less than ideal morals. Ancient literature subject to human interpretation cannot be the definitive word on truth. Besides, it can’t be proven one’s God inspired all written down about God in their cherished book. I’m not convinced the writers always understood God perfectly. See here.

Good and evil has arisen because of how the Bible or other religious Books have been interpreted or viewed. Biblical scholars who respect Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible teaches about many moral values – women rights, gay condemnation, and the afterlife.  See here.  See here.  See here.  Some Religions’ Books are interpreted that God authorizes killing infidels in this life, not just suffer consequences in the afterlife. Again, it can’t be proven Prophets always understood God correctly. Common moral sense isn’t the enemy! 

Where do our rights come from – who’s on Top? 

If one’s Creator exist and is perfectly loving, natural law and God’s laws should be one and the same. Moral values are not determined by a Book, popular opinion, or by a few in power. There are universal values that most rational people agree on such as murder, stealing, equal rights for all, etc. We may disagree what should be the punishment for breaking certain laws. That must be debated openly. Most religions agree the overriding moral guide is to love others like you want to be treated. Belief or lack of belief in God doesn’t give you an excuse to not treat others like you want to be treated. Perfect rights or laws demonstrate loving others like we want to be love. Even atheists would agree.

We don’t all agree what the most loving actions are. It is a bit naïve for any nation to claim our values must be biblically based, as if all agree what the Bible says about abortion, gays, capital punishment, etc. The equal rights of women with men in many Nations are denied because of a Book. Regardless of your faith, most rational beings agree on many universal moral values (murder, stealing).  And no – climate control, immigration, taxes, health care, are not universal laws. The problem in the U.S. is debate is frowned up and attempts are made to censor contrary opinions.  

Is there a Nation we could all agree on? 

We are neither a God or godless nation. Censoring belief in God or unbelief in God is all the same. If suggested God is not above all, then neither is State/Government on top as a god. An ideal nation is surely free to believe in a Creator or not believe in a Creator. Christian politicians often claim or imply our rights are given by God. We can attempt to avoid accusations of Christian nationalism by clarifying our beliefs are personal not universal. Self-evident rights may be found in a Book or natural law, as we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. No rational being argues sexual abuse isn’t evil. Freedom of beliefs is our foundation to decide democratically the more caring action in policy.

I believe the Declaration of Independence and Constitution makes the U.S. unique from most other countries. We all have “unalienable rights” and not rights according to Government, Dictators or one’s understanding of a perfect, loving God. In our Republic, the Government is limited in taking away certain rights of the people. A true Democracy allows representation through voting, though the Constitution and Bill of Rights safeguard individual rights such as freedom of speech – protection from majority power over the minority. A true debate of differing opinions is out best chance at arriving at the most caring decision for all concerned. Until we all ask ourselves “am I acting toward others like I want to be treated,” we seem destined to fail.

Why Don’t We Want To Call Ourselves A Christian Nation (Christian Nationalism)?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Jim Gordon

As I wrote in my last article ( Part 1 ), over time I have become a religious heretic. I have questioned and thought about many of the things I was taught in church as I grew up. A few other topics I have changed my mind on are listed below.

Again, let me say, the following are my thoughts and opinions. I am not saying I am right or wrong, but is where I am at now. I have changed my views over the past several years, and I will most likely change my views over the next several years. We are all entitled to our opinions and we should accept each other with the opinions we have. We certainly will not all agree.

Creationism: I have changed my mind on this topic, not that I do not believe that God created all things, but I no longer believe God created all things in six literal days. God created, but when, how and how long it took I do not know. I do not think it is wrong or against the biblical teaching to say creation could have taken thousands, even billions of years. A thousand years to God are as one day to us, so obviously God’s timing is not like our timing.

I no longer say that Israel, or the United States as far as the goes, is God’s chosen people. I do not believe God has a chosen people, religion, country or race. God loves the world, and that includes everyone no matter where they live, what religion they follow, if any, what race, what gender, who they love or who they vote for.

I tend to find I chose social justice over religion these days. Many churches do help others in various areas, but I still found while in the church system, more people were focused on trying to get people to church or to accept their way of religious thinking and less about helping the poor, the unaccepted, the immigrants and others who often time were looked down upon and called lazy.

Knowing that Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant and we now live in an age of grace, I always find it hard to understand why so many religious institutions focus on the ten commandments and following the Old Covenant law. Why are they pushing what the Bible calls a way of death? For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. And, now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Another change after leaving organized religion is my acceptance of people who the church normally looked down upon and were not accepted within the religious organization. The LGBTQ family, BIPOC, immigrants and other nationalities and religions. I now have friends and acquaintances from all these groups and totally accept that they were created in the image of God, are totally loved by God just as they are, and we can all learn from one another and treat one another with love and respect. There are no second-class citizens.

So, as you can see, I have changed my views on many things over the past few years. I think that is a good thing. I think we need to stay fresh and open to the leading of the Spirit to lead us in new ways as more truth is revealed to us. I am sure there will be more changes over the years as my wife and I walk with God outside the walls of religion. Obviously, these are all only my opinions and views. I may be right or I may be wrong. I do not force these views on anyone else. Each of us are free to choose for ourselves what we believe. What we are to do is love one another even in our differences, accept each other as we are and live life trying to help and encourage our fellow human beings along the way.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

It is often assumed Jesus is speaking directly to you when recorded speaking to an audience in the Bible! Jesus’ words don’t always apply to every situation in one’s life 2000 years later. Jesus often used hyperbole for emphasis without stating exceptions: “But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment”(Mt 5:22). Was Jesus subjecting himself to judgment when calling out religious hypocrites – “you blind fools” (Mt 23:17)? Sounds angry to me! God is mad as hell as you are in certain situations. Discern if your angry is what Jesus is addressing.

Did Jesus think we should always turn the other cheek?

Sermons are preached advising we must always “turn the other cheek” (Mt 5:39). Scholars have suggested a possible literal translation of Mt. 5:39 is “do not resist by evil means.” Nations can defend against evil dictators. We shouldn’t rape and torture those captured as some enemies do. Jesus isn’t advocating domestic violence if a woman is being abused by a man. There may be times to seek justice and others times to resist.

Did Jesus think we must always forgive?  

Jesus is often represented saying we must always forgive. Should we always forgive those who deny their evil actions? Isolation can bring one to their moral sense and prevent further abuses. Every situation is different. The Bible also says God forgives if we forgive others (Mt. 6:14-15). Forgive if they repent (Lk. 17:3). For some forgiving can cause feelings of further victimization and bitterness; for others forgiving can control bitterness and possible acts of revenge. God may not be as non-empathetic as thought. Seek the mind of God what actions in relationship difficulties lead to your best interest in a world full of disappointments. 

Did Jesus really condemn all religions? 

Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn 14:6). Did Jesus really mean God only saves those who accept Jesus? Keep in mind the majority of people born into this world have never heard of Jesus or had a Bible. This verse could easily be interpreted to mean Jesus’ way of life is the best path toward God. The path to God is through love. (See God After Deconstruction, Oord/Fuller Chapter 9). We Christians need to be less condemning and more open to God’s love and message to people of all religions. 

How to read the Bible

Read the Bible to discern for yourselves, perhaps with the help of friends, what the application is in your circumstances. Consider how to go the extra mile. Consider what actions might possibly lead to reconciliation or change in hearts if others open. The Bible isn’t a question-and-answer Book. Besides, there are different opinions on meaning and application of the same passage. The Bible was never meant to be a rules book but for reflection in one’s circumstances. The Bible is valuable because it suggests handling certain circumstances from a spiritual than human perspective. It challenges us to a life of love and treating others like we want to be treated!

What Is The Greatest Misunderstanding About Jesus?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Jim Gordon

Yes, I admit it. I have become a religious heretic. So, what is a heretic? According to the dictionary, it is a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted; the formal denial or doubt of a core doctrine of the Christian faith as defined by one or more of the Christian churches.

First let me say, the following are my thoughts and opinions. I am not saying I am right or wrong, but is where I am at now. I have changed my views over the past several years, and I will most likely change my views over the next several years. We are all entitled to our opinions and we should accept each other with the opinions we have. We certainly will not all agree.

After spending nearly sixty years in the institutional church (including from the time my parents took me as a baby and young child), my wife and I left the organization because we no longer felt we could completely agree with many of the church doctrines and generally accepted ways of the church. What led up to this decision was the many years within the church that taught me some things that I finally had to question.

I remember I went to church whenever the doors were open. I felt that I was going to God’s house and the Spirit may fall during a service and I did not want to miss it. I felt the pastor was well trained in spiritual matters and he was the middleman between God and me. I looked to the pastor for all the answers and to teach me more about God and what I should be doing.

Obviously, I believed that Christianity was the only way to know God and to be a true follower of Jesus. I always thought that Jesus came to start a new religion that would be the only correct way to follow him and only those who followed that religion would be saved.

I always held the Bible in very high regard. I felt it was dictated by God to humans, who carefully wrote everything down so we would have a perfect book about God. It was a love story and a rule book that would guide us each day of our lives. I believed the Bible was the true, inerrant and perfect word of God and it was clear on what it said.

I was one who believed people needed to get right with God or they would end up in Hell after they passed from this earth. Hell was created for the Devil and his angels, but people who rejected God would end up there also. Hell was also a great way to make people afraid enough to make a decision for Christ and boost church attendance.

How many times have we been told that God is our father, a male figure sitting on a throne in Heaven watching down on us, just waiting for us to mess up so he can punish us. If God did not see Jesus in us, then we were all doomed. Even Jesus called him father, so what else could he be?

Now, after becoming totally unsatisfied with what I had always been taught, I started to ask questions and seek answers from someone other than the pastor. I found books and podcasts of others who had other interpretations and views that really made sense. I found many people who had left the institution and were asking questions and finding answers other than the traditional ones the church always taught.

I came to see that church is not God’s house after-all, and the Spirit does not fall at specific places or at certain times. We the people are the church. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit who came to live within us once and for all. The Kingdom of God is within us. The church as we know it is just a building where people meet to fellowship and learn about God, but it is not necessary to attend and there is nothing wrong with not attending if you so choose.

I know there are many religions in the world and that Christianity was not started by Jesus. It is just another man-made organization, but based on the person of Jesus. There are many religions and I believe we can learn from each of them. I believe if Jesus walked the earth today, he would not be a Christian nor attend a church. He would be accepting of all people no matter their personal religious beliefs.

I found that the Bible never claims to be the Word of God, and never claims to be inerrant. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and our guide. John wrote that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. He also added the word became flesh and dwelt among us. That certainly is not a book. We can learn from the Bible because it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, yet it is not dictated by God and it is not inerrant. I personally feel that the Bible has a lot of allegory and parables that point out spiritual truth, but it is not always actual events.

In regard to hell, I began to wonder how can a God of love create such a place. In the Bible, when it talks about hell (actually Gehenna) it was talking about a dumping ground/sacrificial area outside of Jerusalem. The idea of such a place has its origins in early Christianity, where those who rejected Christ were threatened with eternal torture in a lake of fire, called Tartarus or Gehenna (from Greek mythology and a nearby trash pit, respectively). I think that the theory of hell was started by the early church as a scare tactic to bring people into the church. Hell is a fear-based topic, but we know that perfect love casts out fear. Love draws and there is nothing about love in the theory of hell.

I believe that God is not some super-hero man sitting in heaven watching down on everyone. God is Spirit and the Spirit of God lives within us. God does have male and female traits, but God is not a male nor female. We are the temple; the Spirit of God lives within us. Could it be that the writers of the Bible were following what was common in their day, where women were property and only men were worthy. Did they use their prejudices when writing what would become the Bible by referring to God as male and Father? Personally, I think so. It is all written from a male perspective.

So, as you can see, I am definitely considered a heretic among the traditional Christian church-goers. I have no ill-will toward any of them. At one point, I was where they are now in my beliefs, but I no longer accept or follow the traditional doctrines taught within most churches today. I do follow the example of Jesus of loving God and loving others.

Obviously, these are all only my opinions and views. I may be right or I may be wrong. I do not force these views on anyone else. Each of us are free to chose for ourselves what we believe. What we are to do is love one another even in our differences, accept each other as we are and live life trying to help and encourage our fellow human beings along the way.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

No one can definitively say what exactly God’s love is like. Surely the only God worth believing in must be perfectly loving as opposed to in any way hateful. Isn’t it only intuitive to think that if there is a Creator, that a Creator loves the ways their creations should love one another. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly. Surely, perfect human love is the same as Godly love. 

How handle different biblical opinions? 

A Book cannot be the sole determinate of what God’s love is like since ancient literature is subject to interpretation. Reasonable interpreters don’t agree that God in the Bible condemns gays, that God restricts the roles of women in religious institutions, that God condemns unbelievers in this life to a fiery, torturous existence in the afterlife. See here. See here. See here. We must handle our biblical differences without dogmatically claiming our interpretation is right. The question to ask is if you were in someone’s shoes (gay, woman, non-Christian), how would you want to be loved? Such thoughts should influence our interpretation. 

How handle different political opinions? 

Political differences are often handled similarly to biblical differences. We claim certainty, though there can be genuine debate, and we throw around labels such as heretic or conspiracist. Reasonable people don’t agree how to handle climate change challenges. The same with what is the most compassionate – an open or closed border. We must respect one’s another freedom to have their own opinion. Denying free expression of belief is playing Superior in the lives of others. A true debate of differing opinions, regardless if you think one is a heretic or conspiracist, is our best chance at arriving at the most caring decision for all concerned.

What was Jesus’ thoughts on God’s love? 

Many, including me, are convinced to understand Jesus is to understand God. It seems Jesus came to suggest salvation is a current life of love, not a future destination to avoid Hell. Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8). Where was Jesus’ evangelical spiel? Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37), since loving God leads to loving others. Jesus confronted the religious who kept laws but didn’t follow Jesus with their heart. Godly love seeks to empower us to be the unselfish people we deep down desire to be for a better world. See here.

Is human or godly love really a mystery? 

We all have yearnings to be treated how we seem to know how we ought to treat others. What reasonable or rational person doesn’t expect the golden rule from others in their own relationships. Our inborn sense of good and evil, not an ancient Book, tells us sexual abuse or murder is immoral. Many in the public arena throw out derogatory labels when others don’t share their same view on less than obvious universal truths. Try that in your personal relationships! People deep down know how to handle disagreements. Until we all ask ourselves “am I acting toward others like I want to be treated,” we are destined to fail.

Is God’s Love Different Than Perfect Human Love?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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