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Posts Tagged ‘Mystery’

By Mike Edwards

It is only natural to think a Creator would love us and others how we were seemingly created to love others. It matters what we think God is like because our understanding determines the depth of our relationship with God and others. Those who believe in God typically suggest we should strive to be perfect like God. An atheist would say the only kind of God worth believing in is a perfect God. Such language assumes we know perfect from imperfect, good from evil.

Those who declare God is mysterious even believe human and godly perfection are the same.

God is claimed to be a mystery sometimes because one’s interpretation of Scriptures makes God appeal evil from a human perspective. Isn’t this because we all have an inborn intuition that God and human perfect love are the same? It’s nonsensical to suggest evil is sometimes good in God’s eyes. Even the Bible assumes we can know what perfect love is, because the Bible tells us to be perfect like God (Mt. 5:48). We must question our interpretations when God’s love seemingly is not the same as perfect human love.

But, we don’t all agree what perfection is! 

Most agree all should strive to treat others like we want to be treated. We seem to know how we “ought” to treat others. Now, there is disagreement. Should we show tough love to a loved one struggling with addiction or believe their regret of actions and give another chance? Certainty in how we should always act or know what God would do is an illusion. Certainty has led to forcing “supposed” truths onto others. Uncertainty, unless obviously immoral such as sexual abuse, allows different opinions to stand side by side as we continually evaluate the most loving approach. 

Something isn’t immoral because we think the Bible says so.  

Many believe the Bible or Quran are revelations from God about what God is like. But, scholars and laypeople disagree on meanings of passages since literature requires interpretation. Certainty about God according to one’s interpretation is an illusion. Terrorists and extremists defend their beliefs because of a supposed inspired Book, but interpretations aren’t inspired. The world may be an amazingly different place if God-followers didn’t say “because the Bible says so.” 

Human perfection is our best starting point for knowing what God is truly like.

Common moral sense is not the enemy. Don’t let your interpretation of a Book override the golden rule with others of a different gender, color, or sexuality. Don’t condemn others because of your interpretation, whether you believe a Book is infallible or not. You can hardly ever go wrong treating others like you wish to be treated if in their shoes. Actions of love are always more important than any beliefs. What do you imagine a good God is like? You may be right!

 

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By Mike Edwards

The problem of evil is a main reason people indicate they don’t believe in God. How we think God and suffering co-exist in the midst of personal suffering can cause us to wonder if God truly exist. I suggest HERE how we can decide what God is really like. Why would a Creator not love us and others how we were seemingly created to love others? 

Why is freedom so important?  

The majority of evil results from the freedom to be kind or cruel toward others. It seems God creating freedom necessitates one being able to do as much harm as they can do good. There is not some divine or “greater purpose” in the suffering of innocent people. But authenticity, the highest good in relationships, is impossible without freedom. Not even an almighty God can force true love. God, like parents, had a choice – to not create or to create knowing suffering was a possibility in the pursuit of intimacy. Divine love limits divine power.

God can’t!!!

Saying God can’t may seem sacrilegious, but a God who can prevent evil but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child being physically or sexually abused. Are you dissatisfied with conventional answers such as: “It’s all part of God’s plan;” “God wants to make you stronger;” “God’s ways are not our ways;” “You didn’t have enough faith;” “Everything happens for a reason” (Thomas Oord, God Can’t: How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils, p.11). If evil is some grand scheme God can control, why does the Bible say God hates evil so much? 

God doesn’t cause or allow evil!  

Most agree God doesn’t cause evil but some say God allows evil to bring about a greater good. Oord reminds us greater good doesn’t always come about. A surgeon may have to break open your chest to save your life, but what purpose is served from rape, torture, betrayal, murder, deception, corruption, incest, and genocide as if part of some good plan? From this twisted perspective, evil is good! When we say God allows, it gives the impression God stands by when God could stop evil. No one respects those who stand by in the name of freedom while individual rights are being violated. God can’t control or violate freedom and love perfectly. God can only stop evil with the help of others so to not violate freedom. Or not create freedom! 

What about miracles if God can’t supposedly control?  

It may be easier to explain God’s uncontrolling nature if miracles could be refuted. Miracles happen as many attest, but miracles don’t happen because people grovel at the feet of an arbitrary God who has to be begged to love more. A good God surely is always working to heal, but so many biological and environmental factors are involved. Maybe it is not a stretch to say God can’t control human freedom as well as non-human factors. I am convinced God will intervene by all means when circumstances allow. Miracles can happen when God’s uncontrolling love aligns with countless factors known and not known.

It matters if God supposedly knows the future.

A young woman may ask God for wisdom in marrying their partner. All think it is a match made in heaven, but the husband becomes abusive and the children suffer. What kind of God doesn’t warn if God knew this was going to happen? Evil is the result of current and unknown future human free decisions. Not even an all-powerful God can create and guarantee life without death, violence, suffering, and struggle and yet there be free will necessary for genuine relationships. 

God is not a magic prayer genie! 

A good God surely doesn’t cause or want us to suffer. Praying doesn’t make God more caring. God is already doing all they can in a free world. Jesus’ prayer to avoid the Cross may be the best model in times of suffering. Jesus asked God to intervene but God if you are unable please stay close to me. Pretending God can simply heal without accounting for freedom can makes one’s suffering worse. Did I not pray enough? Did I not beg enough? Did I not behave enough or have the right attitude? It isn’t that we didn’t pray enough with the right words so God will answer. 

Is God a mystery and we can’t understand evil and suffering?

Some appeal to mystery by declaring God ways are not our ways to rationalize their interpretation of the Bible, but how can we have a relationship with a God we can’t understand with the brain God gave us? How we are supposed to know and love like God if God is mysterious? The Bible says to be perfect like God, but we can’t know what this means if we can’t know what perfect love is. God’s love surely is like perfect human love. If God calls favoritism evil but plays favorites, this plainly makes a supposedly loving God evil.

Why did God even create?

God knew the risks of freedom as do human parents. Are we wrong to bring children into a world hoping they will want to reciprocate our love but knowing our children could cause suffering or suffer at the hands of others? Suffering is avoidable only if God had not created or allowed freedom. Few argue that no freedom is better than freedom. God and parents risk creating which can lead to great joy or great pain. One is not possible without the other.

What is God doing?

God is tireless in working through individual lives to change the world. Hitler may have been stopped if others had gotten involved in his life as a child or when plotting his evils early on. Perhaps the only way to defeat evil in us, other than destroying at the first hint, is for us to persevere and overcome evil. Also, suffering can enable us to be of use to others in a world where suffering is inevitable if any freedom is present. Martin Luther King’s suffering moved the scales from the eyes of many how they tolerated bigotry.

 

MORE POSTS IN SERIES: I DOUBT GOD IS ……

Why I Doubt God Is An Excluder Of Religions

Why I Doubt Heaven Is Closed To Anyone After Death

Why I Doubt Hell Is Real

Why I Doubt God Is A Homophobe

Why I Doubt God Is A Sexist

Why I Doubt God Is A Mysterious, Moral Hypocrite

Why I Doubt God Is A Blood-Thirsty Child (Jesus) Killer

Why I Doubt God Expects Every Word Of The Bible To Be Viewed As Inspired

Why I Doubt God Is An End-Of-The-World Doomsayer

Why I Doubt God Is An Angry Egomaniac

Why I Doubt God Is A “Hidden Agenda” Proselytizer

Why I Doubt the god of Extremists Or Terrorists

Why I Doubt God Is A Prayer Genie

 

 

 

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By Mike Edwards

Beliefs claimed about God lead to many tuning out God. Our relationship with God cannot exceed our understanding of God. I have written HERE how we can decide what God is really like. One’s interpretation of a Book may be the only reason to think human and godly perfection are different. Why would a Creator not love us and others how we were seemingly created to love others?

God’s morals are the same as perfect human morals.

It is intuitive to think one claiming to be God must be morally perfect. The Bible tells us to be perfect like God (Mt. 5:48), but we can’t know what this means if perfect godly and human morals are different. We’re to imitate God in everything we do (Ephesians 5:1), but we can’t follow God’s example if God’s love isn’t what we know love to be.  It is nonsensical to say God is good if good sometimes is evil. God’s love surely is the same as perfect human love. God isn’t a moral hypocrite humanly-speaking.

It is true we don’t always agree or know what true or perfect love is.  

Common moral, loving sense is not the enemy. Don’t let your interpretation of a Book, which may be wrong, override the golden rule with others of different gender, color, or sexuality. Terrorists or extremists justify immoral treatment of others by hiding behind a supposedly infallible Book. Even if the Bible is infallible, one must never claim their interpretations are infallible since they could be wrong. Actions of love are always more important than one’s interpretation of a Book.

Why would a relatable God desire to be mysterious?

I don’t know anyone who would claim a good God or the God of the Bible doesn’t desire a relationship. This is what makes the story of Genesis so moving. Other ancient near eastern creation stories tell a story of humans being held in contempt by the gods. The God of the Bible esteemed humans in the beginning and desired a close relationship to help oversee the universe. The idea of a relational God wanting to be mysterious may only come from a Book.  

Many only claim God to be a mystery because their interpretation makes God seem immoral. 

It isn’t natural to think God has different moral expectations of themselves from those God created. That is why interpreters play the mystery card because they understand some explanation is required when their interpretations of God are incompatible with most people’s idea of a loving God. Since they believe God gives us our mind and conscience, some rationalization is needed. We don’t always know what perfect love is, but the mystery card short circuits discussions about God’s true character.

The Old Testament doesn’t necessarily claim God is mysterious.

It is true we can’t possible totally understand from a human perspective a God who can create and be in all places at all times. We may not be able to comprehend all plausible moral reasons why suffering and a good God can co-exist. That doesn’t make God a mystery. Isaiah 55:8-9 is the most common OT passage to justify that God sometimes is a mystery: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways…” This passage isn’t suggesting we cannot understand God. God exhorts us to forsake our wicked ways and thoughts (v.7) and turn to God’s higher, righteous ways and thoughts (vs. 8-9).

The New Testament doesn’t necessarily claim God is mysterious.

The word mystery or mysteries is referenced about 27 times in the New Testament. There are two themes involved. Jesus’ teachings were not purposely hidden but rejected and not pursued.  Jesus did not prefer to speak in parables, but sometimes it is better to not speak the truth in a straightforward manner. When King David didn’t listen to God, God sent Nathan to confront in a form of a parable. God’s direct message is only perplexing often to one’s heart not the mind.

The mystery of Christ is a second theme in the NT. God’s plan to bless all through Israel by way of Christ wasn’t fully revealed until NT times. Paul says: “My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that  they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Col 2: 3-4). God’s promise to Israel and all is now fully revealed.

Even God’s will for our life isn’t a mystery.

God respects freedom too much to predetermine our future. We are free to dream and pursue the desires of our heart. Choose the wisest path based on past experiences, current circumstances, and future aspirations. A loving parent doesn’t control their child’s future profession. Loving parents want their children to pursue their passions with the gifts they possess. God’s moral ways are clearly not mysterious or hidden. Do all the good we can, in all the places we can, to all the people we can, as long as we can.

God can’t possibly be a mysterious, moral hypocrite!

Many condemn gays because of their understanding of a Book. It makes no sense why God would condemn gays when they can no more choose who they love than straights can. Just ask heterosexuals or homosexuals. Please don’t judge when you can’t be certain. I can’t imagine one would think – except because one deems their interpretation of a Book inspired – that a woman shouldn’t be the CEO, priest, pastor, etc. if more qualified than the man. Loving others like you want to be loved is true, human, godly love! God is like the perfect human being. Let’s keep pursuing such understanding.

Why I Doubt God Is An Excluder Of Religions

 Why I Doubt Heaven Is Closed To Anyone After Death

 Why I Doubt Hell Is Real

Why I Doubt God Is A Homophobe

Why I Doubt God Is A Sexist

 

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By Mike Edwards

Biblical interpreters will often play the mystery card when their interpretations suggest God’s morals are not the same as human morals. They understand some explanation is required when their views of God are incompatible with most people’s idea of a loving God. Since they believe God gives us our mind and conscience, some rationalization is needed. It is possible our interpretation is wrong, or we can’t know if biblical authors always understood God perfectly.

Even the Bible doesn’t declare God a mystery.

The only place we might get the notion that a relational Creator is mysterious is from a Book. We can’t have the intelligence and knowledge of a God who can be in all places at all time. We may not be able to comprehend all plausible moral reasons why suffering and a good God can co-exist. That doesn’t make God a mystery. Isaiah 55:8-9 is the most common passage to justify that God sometimes is a mystery: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways…” This passage isn’t suggesting we cannot understand God. God exhorts us to forsake our wicked ways and thoughts (v.7) and turn to God’s higher, righteous ways and thoughts (vs. 8-9).

If God is mysterious, why does the Bible ask us to be like God?  

Jesus, who represented God here on earth, assumed we could easily understand God: “Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Parent is perfect” (Mt. 5:48). We may not always know what perfect love entails, but knowing the difference from evil and good isn’t rocket science. Even if you don’t read the Bible, one would assume a good God would exhort us to hate evil. If God is evil sometimes humanly speaking, are we supposed to hate God?

Why would a relational God claim to be mysterious?  

By declaring God ways are mysterious at times, how can we have a relationship with a God we can’t understand with the brain God supposedly gave us? When a human or spiritual parent declares “don’t try to understand me fully,” this implies we can’t have a genuine relationship. Claiming God is a mystery doesn’t invite investigation by those who may be seeking God for the first time. We aren’t really doing God a favor by declaring God a mystery because we can’t explain our theology.

God’s will for our life isn’t even a mystery.

God respects freedom too much to predetermine our future. We are free to dream and pursue the desires of our heart. Choose the wisest path based on past experiences, current circumstances, and future aspirations. A loving parent doesn’t control their child’s future profession. Loving parents want their children to pursue their passions with the gifts they possess. God’s moral ways are clearly not mysterious or hidden. What is God’s moral will? Do all the good we can, in all the places we can, to all the people we can, as long as we can.

 

 

 

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By Mike Edwards

I admit choosing a provocative title. I could have said God is like the perfect human being. What is my point? I am not suggesting any human being is God or that an invisible, inaudible God is human. I am simply trying to find a way to write and encourage discussion of what God is like. We can’t claim to know exactly what God is like, but what ideas may be closer to the truth? 

It matters what we think God is like.

Our understandings about God shape our attitudes toward God. Our relationship with God cannot exceed our views of God. The more you respect your earthly parents, the closer you are to them. Some are atheists, not because they believe God can’t exist, but because what they imagine a loving God should be like isn’t what God-followers claim.

We can’t be positive what God is really like of course.  

I can’t even prove God really exist. I just think that millions if not billions are not insane for knowing or at least hoping there is a Creator who can provide worth, perspective, meaning, and hope of life after death.  We need a way to talk about what God is really like. It is often claimed we know what God is like – just read the Bible!

The Bible cannot be the definitive way of knowing what God is like.

The Bible is ancient literature that requires interpretation. Laypeople, much less biblical scholars who respect Scriptures as authoritative, don’t agree what the same passages mean. Some claim the Bible condemns homosexuality; other deny such claims. How do we decide which interpretation may be the best interpretation of God’s true nature? The majority born never had a Bible so a Creator may have thought of others ways to communicate what they are really like. 

Doesn’t God communicate through our moral intuitions?

A universal, inborn desire to treat others like we want to be treated could suggest how a Creator communicates what is good. When we read ancient literature such as the Bible and two plausible interpretations exist, we can’t avoid using our moral brains.  We are trying to determine what a perfect, loving God is like. An immoral God isn’t worth believing in. Even the Bible assumes we can know what perfect love is, because the Bible tells us to be perfect like God (Mt. 5:48). God’s love surely is what we imagine perfect human love is like.

Even those who play the mystery card assume perfect godly and human morality are the same.

Many claim God is a mystery sometimes because their interpretation of Scriptures suggest God appears evil from a human perspective. Such interpreters are using their moral intuitions and assuming God and human love are the same. It is certain that we don’t always know what perfect love is, but the mystery card short circuits discussions about God’s true character.

Doesn’t the Newer Testament through the eyes of Jesus give us the correct view of God?

Many theologians rightly question if Old Testament writers always had a complete understanding of God. In OT times it was sacrilegious to not speak of God as being all-powerful and controlling even through violence. This may explain violent warfare actions in God’s name. It is suggested Jesus, who claimed to be God in the flesh, had a more complete understanding of what God is like. We still though have the challenge of literature requiring interpretation. Turning the other check is interpreted to claim Jesus never advocated violence, but a possible literal translation of Mt. 5:39 is “do not resist by evil means.” Would Jesus agree violence is never desired but may be necessary sometimes? We can never claim certainty “because the Bible or Jesus says so.”

Lack of certainty about God does not mean anything goes?  

We don’t have to make laws against murder. Criminals don’t deny their actions are wrong; they deny they committed such a crime. It is almost universally accepted that it is morally wrong to kill someone out of revenge or for selfish reasons. It is universally accepted that it is morally wrong to behead people for their beliefs unless you are a terrorist. Claiming the Bible can’t be use to definitively tell us what God is like protects from those claiming their interpretation is definitive while demonizing views to the contrary.

God is like the perfect human being!

We can’t know what God is exactly like but we can imagine what God is like by discussing what human perfection is. Those who argue humans are created in the image of God usually accept that God created us to know and hate evil. If God sometimes is evil according to one’s interpretation of the Bible, should we hate God sometimes? We must question not rationalize such interpretations. A God who seeks a relationship is surely more understandable than mysterious. Don’t we get closer to understanding what Godly love is by accepting that loving others like we want to be loved is the same as how God loves us and others.

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By Mike Edwards

Thomas Oord’s book GOD CAN’T is for those who have suffered and have trouble understanding why a supposedly good, all-powerful God did nothing. Maybe you have just questioned why such a God allows so much evil in this world or at least doesn’t intervene more. We know God doesn’t cause evil but why doesn’t a loving God, if truly powerful, at least stop certain evils? Oord offers the best solution I have read so far.

A God who can prevent evil but doesn’t is no different than a parent who stands by and watches their child being physically or sexually abused. Are you dissatisfied with conventional answers such as: “It’s all part of God’s plan;” “God wants to make you stronger;” “God’s ways are not our ways;” “You didn’t have enough faith;” “Everything happens for a reason.” (P. 11) If evil is some grand scheme God can control, why then does the Bible says God hates evil so much?

Thankfully, GOD CAN’T doesn’t appeal to “God is a mystery” as an explanation. How we are supposed to know and love like God if God is mysterious? We are told to be perfect like God, but how can we know what this means if we can’t know what perfect love is.  God’s love surely is like perfect human love. Oord offers rational answers to the biggest questions of our lives.

Some say God doesn’t cause evil, but allows it, to bring about a greater good. Oord reminds us greater good doesn’t always come about. A surgeon may have to break open your chest to save your life, but what purpose is served from rape, torture, betrayal, murder, deception, corruption, incest, and genocide as if part of some good plan? From this twisted perspective, evil is good! (P.14)

Thomas Oord offers an alternative to the idea that God either causes or allows evil for some grand purpose. God can’t is actually in the Bible. God can’t lie (Titus 1:2), God can’t be tempted (Jm. 1:13), etc. (P.25) It is also logical that a good God can’t be unloving, God can’t change the past, God can’t deny freedom, God can’t be truly loving if controlling. See also Oord’s Book – THE UNCONTROLLING LOVE OF GOD.

GOD CAN’T suggests that God can’t prevent evil singlehandedly (Chapter 1). The book concludes that God needs our cooperation in intervening in evil (Chapter 5). Believing God can’t prevent evil moves us past thinking God causes or allows pain, tragedy, and abuse. We shouldn’t blame God for the evil God can’t prevent. If you accept this you can move on to believing God feels our pain (Chapter 2), God works to heal (Chapter 3), and God squeezes every bit of good from bad (Chapter 4).

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=god+cant+oord&sprefix=God+cant%2Caps%2C183&crid=1QGZX4WJB8XWR&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Agod+cant+oord&ajr=0

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