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Posts Tagged ‘pastors’

How You Vote is Personal

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Jesus follower, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged acceptance, christian living, Christianity, pastors, political, political parties, politics, voting on October 28, 2020| 8 Comments »

by Jim Gordon

I am not much into politics and I certainly do not put much hope or trust in politicians. I very seldom make political statements since I feel politics is a personal thing. Who you vote for or if you vote at all is up to each individual, so this will be one of very few statements I will make on politics and it will not be an endorsement for any candidate.

First off, whether you vote party lines, independent or third-party is entirely a personal choice. Whether you vote at all is a personal choice. I understand the concept that as christians we live in the Kingdom of God and we trust God as our head and pledge no allegiance to man. Yet living in this world many believe in the political process and they vote for those they feel is best to lead the country. I believe in praying for our leaders and trying to get the best people into office for the good of the country no matter which party they belong too.

Either way we look at this, the one thing that really bothers me is seeing christian people, especially those in leadership positions such as pastors, evangelists, elders and such making comments such as “if you are a christian you cannot support this person or party”, or, “if you were a real christian you would not be voting for that candidate or that party”.

I understand pastors and leaders giving their personal opinions about who they like as a candidate, we all do that, but that should be done on a more personal and private basis. I think to tell people who to vote for, and to say you are or are not a christian based on who you vote for is crossing the line and is just plain wrong.

I think most people are smart enough to listen, read and decide for themselves who they want to support. Most people want the best for our country and they really believe they are voting for the person who will do the best job.

I personally think that christians, especially those such as pastors and leaders who make these type statements should keep their views to themselves. We all should have the right to vote for the person we feel is best, and to do so without someone trying to put a guilt trip on us for having a different view, and especially when it comes to our christianity.

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Which Pastor Do You Follow?

Posted in Acceptance of Others, Bible, christian living, Jesus follower, tagged Bible, comforter, counselor, evangelist, Holy Spirit, pastors, religion, Spirit of God on September 23, 2020| 4 Comments »

by Jim Gordon

In the Christian world today there are many, many people who are well known and educated in the Bible and religion. Pastors, evangelists and big-named TV evangelists are so numerous we cannot remember them all. People have their favorites and sometimes even argue about which one is the best and should be listened to the most.

For me personally, I am getting tired of all the big-named, well known pastors and evangelists giving me their views and opinions and telling me what God is saying. I have pretty well stopped listening to people and try to focus on hearing the voice of the Spirit of God who lives within me.

Obviously, we all have an opinion and a view and there is nothing wrong with listening to others to get their viewpoints. The problem is that most of the time we put our full faith in what other people say. There is no need to put such faith in another person. Jesus said when he left earth that he was sending us a comforter, one who would guide is into all truth and we would need no man (or woman) to teach us.

Listen to those to whom you value their knowledge and understanding, yet do not put complete and total faith into anyone. Seek the still, quiet voice of the Spirit of God from within and rely on the Spirit to teach and guide you in your daily walk with God.

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The Pastor or the Spirit?

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Ekklesia, Jesus follower, tagged acceptance, Bible, christian living, evangelist, Holy Spirit, pastor, pastors on August 14, 2019| 9 Comments »

by Jim Gordon

Growing up in the church system I was always taught that the pastor was the authority on anything spiritual. After all, they had been ‘called’ and had gone to college to be taught everything about God and the bible.

I remember how impressed I was by pastors. If I had a question about the bible I could make an appointment and go in and talk with the pastor. I figured he would have all the answers.

As I got a little older, I became infatuated with some of the big named evangelist. I would listen to them, send them money and if at all possible, go to their crusades. I can remember thinking if I could only be like them. They were super-spiritual and knew all about God and had the answers to all spiritual questions.

I really thought that was the way to learn about God, by going to church, reading the bible and getting all the wisdom of the pastors and evangelists.

Fortunately, I got to a point where I realized the pastors and evangelists were no different than me. They did not have all the answers and they were not super-spiritual like I had always imagined. I came to understand that people are people. None are closer to God or more special to God than another. Yes, some are more knowledgeable due to more time reading and studying but no one is higher up or more important in God’s eyes.

Now days I really do not care much what men and women say, it is just their opinion. They are humans like the rest of us. We can certainly discuss things and get insight from one another, but God loves each of us the same. The Spirit within us can guide and teach us without the help of any human being. If we believe the Spirit lives within us, why are we more interested in what another human says? Why not learn how to hear the voice of the Spirit from within rather than the thoughts and traditions of men?

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The Mega Monstrosity

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Community, tagged Brian Zahnd, christian living, Christianity, church, megachurch, pastors, Rachel Held Evans on June 18, 2019| Leave a Comment »

by Jordan Hathcock, Guest Blogger
https://welcometothetablesite.wordpress.com

We Americans are easily impressed by all things big and successful. We find it almost impossible to gainsay that which has massive popular endorsement. So the assumption is that if a particular message can fill churches and arenas and propel books onto bestseller lists, then it must be a good thing. – Brian Zahnd

Bigger, stronger and faster, it’s the only way to survive and thrive in the good old USA. It has become the mantra of modern-day capitalism. The consumerism culture thrives on the constant banter of “we want it now and more of it”! We as a species have been leading the charge and now are seeing the horrible and harmful effects in our communities and environment.

Within the Christian platform, we have seen how using this consumer culture tactic, enables devastating spiritual and physical carnage. The Mega Church has become the mascot of this mass consumption crusade through its ideologies and practices. Now, every entity has its anomalies (like all things in life). There are some heathy and good results coming from mega churches, no doubt (I have experienced it firsthand). But, from an overarching perspective, the fruit of the mega church doesn’t look so good.

Here are just a few examples of what happens when the tribalistic big church group think runs the show:

– Too big to fail

– Prohibits intellectual diversity

– Pastor egomaniac syndrome

– Misappropriated funds

– Sexual misconduct

All of this leads to unhealthy relationships which then produces unhealthy communities. When we make church a “corporation”, we open-up all the rules and regulations that need a corporation to be successful. It comes more of a place to compete instead of a place to heal. When this becomes the priority (bigger and better) we lose the capacity to really step into discipleship (loving the least of these).

Just recently, we have seen this model of church cause great harm and pain. The Village Church and its head pastor Matt Chandler were caught up in a tragic incident that resulted in sexual abuse. On Feb. 17, 2018, Ms. Bragg and her husband, reported to the Village that their daughter, at about age 11, had been sexually abused at the church’s summer camp for children. Since then, Matthew Tonne, who was the church’s associate children’s minister, had been investigated by the police, indicted and arrested on charges of sexually molesting Ms. Bragg’s daughter. [1.]

With this devastating tragedy, you would expect any ethical organization (especially a church) to do whatever it takes to bring justice to this girl and her family. Not only that, but love and support from the leadership. This never happened as Ms. Bragg stated:

Ms. Bragg waited for church leaders to explain what had happened and to thoroughly inform other families in the congregation. She waited for the Village to take responsibility and apologize. She waited to have even one conversation with Mr. Chandler, a leader she had long admired.

But none of that ever came.

“You can’t even take care of the family you know,” she remembered thinking as she walked out of the large auditorium. “Don’t tell more victims to come to you, because you’re just going to cause more hurt.”[2.]

AHHH! This is fucking unacceptable! How can you sleep at night Village clergy?! Matt Chandler, where are you at?! How does it come to this? Well, I think what we see here is when you are part of a non-stop “bigger, stronger, faster” locomotive church model, you plow through anything that gets in your way (disregarding all collateral damage). When you run a community based on American consumerism ethics, you become too big to fail and will not accept defeat. The machine has too much of a good thing going to worry about a little sexual abuse…what a diabolical program.

What’s the lesson we can learn from all of this? I don’t know but I think we need to realize the danger when it comes to our hyper competitive consumer culture. If we claim to participate in the divine love of the universe that engulfs the air we breathe and the people we trust, we must create healthy spaces for Christs collective to grow. This earth in time and space and the forever now that lies between is to important and precious to ignore. We must humble ourselves and let go of our egos to let the Spirit guide us to new heights. It’s the least of these that we are here to serve, not the power-hungry tyrants and their cutthroat empires…

But the modern-day church doesn’t like to wander or wait. The modern-day church likes results. Convinced the gospel is a product we’ve got to sell to an increasingly shrinking market, we like our people to function as walking advertisements: happy, put-together, finished—proof that this Jesus stuff WORKS! At its best, such a culture generates pews of Stepford Wife–style robots with painted smiles and programmed moves. At its worst, it creates environments where abuse and corruption get covered up to protect reputations and preserve image. – Rachel Held Evans

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Christ the Solid Rock

Posted in christian living, Community, The church, tagged Be the Church, church, pastors, shepherd, Solid Rock on August 3, 2016| 2 Comments »

A good friend of mine wrote the following paragraph. There is an old hymn that says “On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand” As important as the church is in our lives, we have to be careful not to put our hope in it. I have received a lot of help thru the church and a lot of good basic teachings. I was also saved in church but my hope is not in the church. My hope is in “Christ the solid rock”. There are times when we are alone with no Christian fellowship and maybe we can’t make it to church for some reason. We have to be able to stand as mature Christians and rely on our relationship with Christ. The church is no substitute for Christ. It is only where we learn about Him. I guess what I am saying is that we have a relationship with Christ and not the church, and He is our source of strength if we call upon Him in truth. I personally am going thru the desert in life and I have to depend on Him. He has proved His love and care for me and in reality, He is the “Son of the Living God”. Bottom line, let’s be careful to put our dependence on Him. All other ground is sinking sand….

This goes along with some of my posts about modern-day church. The institutional church is a place for believers to get together but it is not the goal. Going to church does not make us Christians, it does not necessarily make us better people or more dedicated believers. It is a place to get ideas and interpretations from others about God, a place to meet other believers, a place to reach out and help others and be encouraged.

We need to stop putting the focus and emphasis on church, stop putting our eyes on pastors and realize that they are not the answer. We need to put all focus and attention on Christ. He is who we follow and worship. He is the Shepherd the rest of us are the sheep. There are no co-shepherds, no intermediates between Christ and us. We are to follow Christ and Him alone. We are to learn from Him and love others equally.

There is nothing wrong with going to church but don’t put your eyes on it and the leaders therein. Keep your focus on Christ. Whether you go to church or don’t go to church, Christ is the one we look to and serve. Don’t worry so much about going to church, but rather be the Church. It is not a building we go to, but a people who love and follow Christ.

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This is the Lord’s Day and Other Such Sayings

Posted in christian living, Community, The church, tagged Bible, church, denominations, grace, institutional church, Lord's Day, Old Covenant, pastors on July 23, 2016| 2 Comments »

For those of you who have left the institutional church you will probably relate to what I am saying.

After being out of organized religion for nearly three years now, some of the traditional and normal terms of the christianese language really bother me. I guess it should not do so because I certainly understand why people say them and I used to say them myself at one time or another. Even after being away from the traditional church for three years some of the terms of speech are still hard to quit saying.

christianese

Now days my wife and I see things a little differently. This is my viewpoint and I certainly do not mean to say it is wrong to use certain terms or that I am right and everyone else is wrong. It is just one of those things that make me cringe when I hear certain terms.

Such as ‘this is the Lord’s day’ when people talk about Sunday. Many Christians use the term the Lord’s Day when talking about the Sabbath or the day of rest. To them it is the day we go to church and worship God. Personally, I believe every day is the Lord’s Day as the Bible says in Psalms 118:24 this is the day the Lord has made let us rejoice and be glad in it. It does not mention a particular day.

Or the term ‘we are on our way to the house of God’, like God lives in a house. People are talking about going to church but God does not live in buildings or houses, He lives in us. Do you not know that you are the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you? (I Corinthians 6:19)

We will hear people talk about ‘the Word of God’ and know they are talking about the Bible. I think the Word of God is a person, not a book. The Bible talks about God and it leads us to Jesus but the Bible is a book written by men who were inspired by God but not controlled by God. The Word of God who is living, all powerful, inerrant and perfect, sharper than any two-edged sword is Jesus. As the Bible states in John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

We mention God as a male Father, yet God really is not male or female. God is spirit and I believe has both male and female attributes. I certainly do not think there is anything wrong with saying Father or Him or Her, but it is a mindset we have that God is a man with all the attributes of a male. We picture God as a huge blank-faced man sitting up in heaven looking down on us, but God is spirit, God is everywhere and the Kingdom of God is within us.

Pastors will talk about special services by telling the people to be sure and come tonight because ‘God is going to show up and the Spirit is going to fall on those who are here’. That one gets me because God lives within us and is everywhere so how is He going to show up up now and then at special times and places? And didn’t the Spirit come upon humans on the day of Pentecost? Why would he fall upon us again when he is already living within us?

god is here

I realize a lot of the time we use these terms out of habit even when our beliefs and interpretations have changed. We seem to be so indoctrinated by the teaching of the institutional church and the denominations we grew up in that these terms just come out. I know this is probably a minor thing and whether we use such terms or not we are talking about the same God and we all love God. Yet I wonder if by using these terms are we reacting to a mindset of old covenant thinking rather than the new covenant day of grace.

My wife and I are certainly finding out that when leaving the institutional church and the many traditions, doctrines, interpretations and terms of speech we were taught over the years, it is much harder to break free from the institutional way of thinking than it is physically leaving the building.

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The Body of Christ

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Community, Ekklesia, Kingdom of God, The church, tagged acceptance, body of Christ, church, denominations, doctrine, Ekklesia, elders, Holy Spirit, pastors on July 6, 2016| 6 Comments »

Ephesians 1:22,23 — And He put all things in subjection under His feet and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

What stands out most to me is the description of what true church is, which is His body. It is not a building. It is not a place we go on a certain day. Christ is the head of all of us who are saved by grace. We are the church.

I do not see separation in this statement. I do not see denominations, buildings, programs and formal services trying to get people to come to us. I do not see separated groups based on doctrine.

I see a living, active group of people going out into the world day by day in the love and strength of the Spirit. I see a united effort seeking to show the love of God to all we meet each day.

Body of Christ

I see people looking to Jesus through the Holy Spirit for truth and guidance. No more looking to a man, woman or a group of elders for teaching and guidance. Christ is our head and the Spirit is our teacher. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers, bishops, elders and any such leader mentioned are not positions of authority but are fellow believers who help encourage and build up their brothers and sisters through servant-hood example.

This leads me to think it is time to stop arguing over doctrines and interpretations. It is time to stop looking to other brothers and sisters whom we elevate into a higher position. We need to realize we are all kings and priests and able to teach and give a word to uplift one another. We need to allow God to live through us daily as we go out into the world and show His love to people who are hurting, who are outcasts and who need to be uplifted and encouraged. It is time to look past the labels we put on one another and see human beings who were created in the image of God and who need love, acceptance and fellowship with the Spirit and with one another just as much as the rest of us.

We are the Church, we are the people of God who are filled with the power and love of the Holy Spirit going out into our world showing that God loves them.

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Pastors, Church and Loving Others

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, The church, tagged asexual, Christian, Gay, jew, LGBT, pastors, pope on December 2, 2015| 12 Comments »

Pastors

I grew up in the organized church, and I know the pastor was the focal point of every church I attended. In the Methodist church, if the pastor was not liked, he usually got voted out and moved to a new location by the board and district office.

Later, as I became dissatisfied I would leave one church and go to another. That became pretty common, people going from church to church looking for the right pastor. We want someone we can relate to, someone who will give us food for thought and keep us interested during the weekly sermon. As soon as one of those needs are not met, or the pastor steps on our toes, we pack up and move on.

More recently I began to wonder why the pastor was the main go-to person in the church. Why did I and many others think the clergy seemingly had all the answers and was ordained to guide us lower level laity in spiritual matters? And why did it seem a lot of pastors would teach saved by grace, but live by law?

Do some pastors take advantage and teach law on purpose. Yes, I think some do. Some like the power and prestige of their job and they want people looking to them for guidance.

Do some pastors take advantage of teaching law for monetary purposes? Yes, I think some do. What better way to get the money rolling in for mortgages, salaries, utilities and monthly budgets than by telling their members tithing is a requirement?

Do all pastors do things like that, wanting power and control and financial gain? Of course not. I think most are doing their job out of love for God and for their congregation. After all, this is the only system all of us know. This is the system that has been in place for hundreds of years. Our church system with its pastor, board of elders and worship team is what most of us think is the way it should be done. Yet I have come to think that pastors are put on a higher level spiritually, and we all look up to them as our spiritual leader and guide. I think this way of thinking is wrong.

Welcometochurch

I think the problem is most of us never question what we are taught. Most of us do not put a lot of effort into learning and hearing from God for ourselves. We think that is the pastor’s job and he will tell us what the truth is. The problem with that is they were taught by a previous pastor, who was taught by a previous pastor and on and on. Most pastors were taught from a bible college backed by a particular denomination and its doctrines. It becomes an endless cycle. It becomes so easy to look to others for information rather than make the effort to learn for ourselves.

Most of us do not want to question things and learn only by the Holy Spirit. Even though we are told we do not need anyone else to teach us, most of us are more than ready to run to the pastor or mega-church to find out what God is saying.

We seem to forget that Christ is the head of the Church, and we are to look to him and not any other human. Each of us are equally important and functioning parts of the body. No one is above or below anyone else. Even those we consider leaders are not better than anyone else. Leaders should lead lovingly by experience, out of love for others and to encourage their fellow brothers and sisters along the way.

Church

Most churches are in existence as a place for believers to meet and worship God. Yet the modern day church seems to teach both grace and law. Once you are saved by grace, you need to do, do, do. Try to live up to the law, be active and busy trying to pay God back for saving you by grace. They say God will help you in the times you fall and cannot measure up. To me, this is still teaching that it is partly by our effort that we earn our salvation.

We seem to forget that the law was given as a tutor to lead us to Christ. Once Jesus came into our world, things changed. Once Jesus died, the old covenant was fulfilled and a new covenant went into effect, an agreement of grace. Remember, the New Covenant did not start in Matthew 1. The old covenant was still in effect throughout the ministry of Jesus. He was born under the law and taught law, mainly to show us that we were not able to live up to God’s requirement of perfection.

I truly believe that most organized churches and pastors are doing what they feel is right, and doing so out of love. The problem for a lot of us who are the ‘dones’ (those who no longer attend church or look to organized religion), is that we feel the traditional organized way church is set up is not what God intended, and we feel a separation from the people still in institutional church. It becomes an ‘us versus them’ way of thinking, which ought not to be. We are brothers and sisters in Christ no matter what we do or do not do on Saturday or Sunday.

I feel that the Church that Jesus is building is not a building or an organization. Jesus is building an organism made up of living stones, a community of believers saved by grace. The Church is not a place we go, it is each of us living in the power of the Holy Spirit each and every day.

Loving Others

No matter what denomination, doctrine, or way of living we choose, it should not be something that makes us enemies with others. All people, no matter what their beliefs and way of life, should be accepted and loved. That is the Jesus way, loving others.

The thing is, whether you are an active member of a particular church, or if you are done with religion and the institutional church, we should be able to accept one another and get along in love.

We should remember, all people were created in the image of God. Sin separated us from our Father, but Jesus came and fulfilled the law. Our sinful nature was crucified with Christ on the cross. In Christ, we are now dead to sin, and filled with His Spirit. Because of Christ, we are now considered holy and righteous in Him.

Nothing we do or do not do makes us any more acceptable to God. Because of this, we should no longer look at others in this ‘us versus them’ mentality. No one is better or worse, more loved or less loved, or more important than anyone else. Christ is the head of the Church and each of us are equally functioning parts of his body. We do not look to a pastor, pope, or elder for guidance, but listen for the guidance of the Spirit of Christ who is within us.

Obviously, not everyone believes this. That does not make it untrue just because some do not believe, yet we realize it is a belief. We cannot prove anything to anyone. We cannot prove God exists, just as an atheist cannot prove God does not exist. To a christian, just because we cannot prove God exists we still believe because of faith. To an atheist, it is not lack of faith, it is lack of proof. There is no way to prove God is there, so they do not accept that he is.

I believe it is the Holy Spirit who convicts and draws people to God. I do not believe it is our responsibility to try and change the minds and views of others. It is not our responsibility to convert others and convince them God is real. God can take care of himself. What we can do is exactly what we read in the bible, love God and love others. That is it.

Passion for Jesus

We need to remember that there are those who do not see things our way and that is OK. We are not responsible to save the world or make them see things our way. Whether male or female, black or white, gay, straight, LGBT or asexual, if an atheist, christian, jew, muslim or whatever, we are all people who deserve to be loved and accepted.

Is it wrong to talk to people and tell them what we believe and why we have faith in God? No, it is not….as long as they want to know. Our witness and our way of preaching the gospel should be our lifestyle, not just our words. If people see something in us and they ask why we do something or why we believe a certain way, then yes, in love, tell them. But we are not to go out and force our views on others trying to convert them to our way of living. And in turn, as christians we need to be open and accepting enough to truly listen to those who have different views. And do that without having the underlying intention of later on trying to convince them their way is wrong.

Believe it or not, God loves each and every one of us. If we believe or not, if we accept by faith or do not accept due to lack of proof, God still loves us. Those of us who are His followers are to show the same love to everyone we meet along the way.

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Christ alone

Posted in christian living, tagged believers, building, Christ, church, organized, pastors, shepherd on November 16, 2011| Leave a Comment »

This goes along with some of my posts about modern-day church. The organized church today is a place for believers to get together, but it is not the goal. Going to church does not make us Christians, it does not make us better people or more dedicated believers. It is a place to get ideas and interpretations from others of the Bible, a place to meet other believers, a place to reach out and help others. Basically it is a Christian social organization.

We need to stop putting the focus and emphasis on church, stop putting our eyes on pastors and realize that they are not the answer. We need to put all focus and attention on Christ. He is who we follow and worship. He is the Shepherd, the rest of us are the sheep. There are no co-shepherds, no intermediates between Christ and us. We are to follow Christ and Him alone. We are to learn from Him and love others equally.

There is nothing wrong with going to church, but don’t put your eyes on it and the leaders therein. Keep your focus on Christ. Whether you go to church or don’t go to church, Christ is the one we look to and serve. Don’t worry so much about going to church, but rather be the Church. It is not a building we go to, but a people who love and follow Christ.

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Televangelists

Posted in christian living, Missions, tagged Christianity, christians, church, fellowship, gospel, ministry, pastors, televangelists, television on May 24, 2010| 2 Comments »

I have seen some emails talking about a bill that would remove pastors and Christian programming from TV and radio. I’m not sure if there is any truth to the emails, but it does bring a thought to my mind. Now I don’t want to sound like I’m against the Gospel message, but just maybe this is a good thing. Before you get the wrong idea, let me explain what I mean.

The majority of non-Christians won’t turn on a TV Gospel program. Taking these pastors off of TV and radio might cause more Christians to have personal one on one fellowship with both believers and non-believers. Can you image 4, 6 or 10 people in a living room, or a small group meeting at a restaurant for fellowship and getting to know one another in a more intimate way?

In the US, we tend to think our pastors are the only ones to carry the Gospel to the world, when in reality the true ‘Church’ ( us ) are to allow God to work through us to spread His love to a hurting world on a one on one basis with those we come in contact with every day.

Taking the pastors off TV may just cause Christians to find the fellowship they need with other Christians, and to take the gospel message to people who would not turn on a gospel program or attend a religious meeting. Again I don’t mean to step on the toes of the elderly and shut-ins, but maybe that is another area where the ‘Church’ could go out and minister to those who are unable to get out.

Speaking in financial terms, we all know that TV and radio programs require a lot of money to stay on the air waves. What we usually see on these programs are the pastors begging for more and more money to build up their ministries with multi-million dollar facilities and private jets. What is wrong with this picture?

Why not use this money to help feed and take care of the poor, the homeless and the needy.

The way I see it, taking the televangelists off the air waves may be the best thing that could happen to the Christian world today.