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Posts Tagged ‘heaven’

Why Do People Reject That God Saves All To Heaven Eventually?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on January 4, 2026|

by Mike Edwards

Universalism is a theological belief that God eventually saves all to go to heaven after death. Some may even experience open-mindedness in the afterlife after meeting their Creator. God never gives up. God’s love is relentless. This doesn’t mean some won’t reject God though it is hard to conceive some rejecting a perfect place such as heaven as opposed to death (Hell is a Myth, See here. ) It is hard to believe but possible that some people, even if they were given infinite chances in eternity, would still reject God forever. But universalism as least means all have final chances after meeting their Creator in the afterlife, to believe and accept God’s ways.

Why universalism makes godly sense 

Does God’s loving nature allow stopping to forgive? There are consequences in this life and there may be painful reckonings in the life to come, but a loving God can’t stop showing grace. Why would God undergo a complete character lobotomy after we take our last breath here on earth? Is a thief going to enter Paradise but not others with lesser sins because they weren’t next to Jesus hanging on a Cross right before their last breath? God’s grace doesn’t depend on whether one has more opportunities to respond to God than others. Even imperfect human parents wouldn’t cut off a child who eventually accepts responsibilities for their actions. Universalism is possible or even probably true because there can’t be a deadline or time limit on God’s love. There isn’t on my love for my children. Am I a better lover than God?  We are told to forgive our enemies as many times as necessary but God doesn’t? 

Universalism seems true even according to the Bible 

Many may reject universalism because they believe the Bible teaches against it. Many who reject universalism often resort to name calling rather than defending their views – referring to those who reject their claims as heretics. What many may not know is there are many biblical scholars who believe the Bible can be interpreted to teach God saves all eventually. See: All Will End Up Heaven According To The Bible!

Universalism seems true because Hell is a myth: 

Many who believe God exists agree God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever. If God supposedly has such control over happiness, why not use the same power over rebelliousness?

Without Hell is there is a reason to consider faith in God here on earth? 

It is implied Hell/fear is necessary to want to follow God. The Bible seems to suggest God seeks to empower us to be the unselfish people we deep down desire to be, not to be fearful of a destiny to be tortured forever in the afterlife. Jesus sought to inspire others to seek God’s help in loving others for the good of the world. Jesus simply commended Zacchaeus for recognizing a journey necessary to avoid personal destruction because of sin. Salvation is not a future destination but a currently reality (Lk 19).  Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery not how to avoid hell but: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8).  Why pursue God without fear? Surely a loving God seeks to encourage us to pursue heavenly than worldly ways here on earth for our own happiness.

What about Justice? 

The Bible talks about everyone, whether having faith here on earth or not, will be judged (2 Cor 5:10; Rom 14:12). Punishment doesn’t bring back a victim’s robbed memories of the future due to the murder of a loved one. Justice can be understanding your victim’s pain and accepting the harmfulness of your actions. After death God may seek for all to face every action of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Humans like God may forgive their enemies if they truly regret their actions and seek forgiveness. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death.

Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like

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God is Like Jesus, Loving and Kind

Posted in Acceptance of Others, Bible, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , on December 30, 2025|

by Jim Gordon

I grew up in the traditional church environment and followed the religious teachings and doctrines over the years. I have seen a lot of things that I now question and wonder why things were done that way.

Over the years, many of us have come to see God as super human being sitting on a huge throne up in heaven just waiting to punish us for our mistakes. We see God as being far away, impersonal, judgmental and many times as someone to fear.

Yet when we think about the life of Christ and know he was sent from God to show us what God is really like, we come to see God in a different way. When we read about how Jesus lived and treated people, we see him as loving, compassionate, kind and accepting. Jesus came to show us that God is the same way.

After Jesus left this life on earth God sent the Holy Spirit to live within us. Think about it, God in Spirit form lives within us and among us right now. God is not a super human being way up there somewhere far away, but is Spirit and is right here within us.

God is not out to get us and punish us every time we mess up. I think God gets a bad reputation from some of the writings in the Bible due to mistranslations, different word meanings and not understanding customs of the times. I believe men, although they were inspired by God, wrote down some of their personal views. Obviously, if you were inspired by someone to write a book you would still write it from your perspective. Anything man has a hand in is going to be flawed. The Bible, when combined with the leading of the Holy Spirit is purposeful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, and in guiding us to the living Word of God who is Jesus.

Rather than running around being afraid of God and waiting for the judgment of God to fall, look at Jesus and see that God is love. Whenever correction is needed it is only for our good and it is done in love. Just as a loving parent sometimes corrects their child. it is done in love and for the child’s own good. We are not waiting to be destroyed by a God who loves judgment and condemnation. We are living with a God who is love, who created us and who wants the best for us during our time on earth.

Stop being afraid of God and continue to seek fellowship with God. If you hear a pastor telling you that God is out to get you and that you had better shape up or else, get away from there and find brothers and sisters in Christ who will be encouragers and who will help build you up rather than condemn and scare you. Fear of judgment will not lead you into a loving relationship with God. Only true, godly love will be what draws us into fellowship with God. God is love. For those of us who are followers of Jesus we should also be known for our love. As Jesus said in Matthew 22:37-39, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. Live a godly life by loving people. Rather than being known for judgment, condemnation, hatred and what you are against, show the love of God. Be kind to all people and be known for your love of your fellow human beings.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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Should We Forgive Others If The Guilty Don’t Confess Their Guilt?

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , on December 21, 2025|

by Mike Edwards

I am writing this to those who have experienced harm and their violator doesn’t acknowledge guilt. Also, to those who advise the victim “must” forgive to be right with God. There are different religious view on forgiveness – if one must confess or seek forgiveness before being forgiven from God or humans. Others suggest all should be forgiven even if one doesn’t profess guilt. Should we forgive others without expectations?

Many Christians assume the Bible teaches we must forgive without any expectations. The Bible can also be used to claim repentance is required. God does not forgive the rebellious (Josh. 24:19); “… if they repent forgive them” (Lk. 17:3). The Bible wasn’t meant to be a rules book to advise what every individual should do in their circumstances. “Turn the other cheek” is not meant for a domestic victim. One is free to forgive without expectations, but you have come to the right blog if a victim and you think certain expectations are important before forgiving a person.

Doesn’t God expect genuine regrets before getting into Heaven?

Many defend that the Bible claims you must always forgive no matter the circumstances. But those who defend easy forgiveness would not agree God forgives without acknowledging any wrongdoing. They would suggest you can’t enter Heaven without seeking forgiveness from God. The assumption is God expects and can discern if you are being genuine in repenting. Maybe even God has certain conditions or expectations if seeking forgiveness. Aren’t we supposed to imitate God?

I am suspicious of those that “just want to move on” 

A bully or abuser who doesn’t acknowledge their behaviors and just wants to move on is suspect. I have hurt others to know how I should go about asking for forgiveness. It isn’t about my feelings but the victim’s feelings. I don’t know why some guilty folks focus on their expectations and not their victim’s. The guilty obviously know they have done something wrong if asking for forgiveness. Those refusing to wrestle with expectations communicated by victims don’t acknowledge the seriousness of their actions.

Wrongdoing must be recognized 

If one is not held accountable for their wrongdoing, might they just do it again? Quick or easy forgiveness can allow a husband’s abusive behavior to continue. When a sexual abuser doesn’t openly acknowledge their actions, will they continue to abuse others? The guilty need to stop with excuses or blaming others. Those with the same upbringing or circumstances don’t always mistreat others. The guilty must take responsibility and accept steps a victim wants taken next. Amends should always be made by the guilty, to prove genuineness. 

Obviously, restitution isn’t always possible! 

Bad memories can’t be erased; positive memories robbed by the guilty can’t be restored. This is why certain relationships cannot always continue.  Those that have hurt others have no rights to insist on a future relationship. When restitution is possible, discussions are necessary from the victim’s viewpoint. 

To forgive or not! 

I would say to those who demand forgiveness no matter what – Does God really forgive those after death and entering God’s presence and they reject God’s invitation for a relationship.”? In my mind forgiveness isn’t really a discussion until the guilty acknowledge they need forgiveness. But for some forgiving despite lack of remorse can control bitterness. For others to forgive despite lack of remorse can cause feelings of further victimization and bitterness. We must stop guilting victims, according to the Bible, to forgive their violator no matter what. Those hurt must seek the mind of God what actions in relationship difficulties lead to your best interest in the long run in a world full of disappointments. You may discover God is emphatic!

Confession:

I experienced a brother lying to us siblings about family finances after my father’s death. He stole an inheritance my father intended for all equally. It ain’t me. All four siblings felt betrayed in the same way. This brother, who I was close to, denied any wrongdoing for gain for himself. We went to court and he had to make real estate sales undesired by him. It’s been a decade and I never felt the need/desire to forgive him, because he denied any wrongdoing. I didn’t harbor bitterness. I was just ready to move on. Only recently for some unknow reason, for the first time I silently forgave him without his confession. I am ready to forgive in person, I think, if he admits guilt and asks for forgiveness. I will have to discern if being genuine. Christian friends will say God forgives you. My counter – I have admitted to God I need forgiveness for my sins. To each his own and God!

Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like 

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Which Religion Leads To Heaven?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , on September 1, 2025|

by Mike Edwards

We don’t know what happens after life here on earth. No one can claim the Bible, subject to fallible interpretation, has the definitive answer. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do.  There are certain beliefs Christians often declare that understandably are stumbling blocks for others wanting a relationship with God. We are told God is a hellish, sadistic torturer according to beliefs while here on earth, but even humans wouldn’t create Hell for their worse enemies. Hell is a myth. See here.  Another misbelief is that God condemns gays. I doubt it. See here. Another stumbling block is the claim that only Christians go to heaven because of certain beliefs.

Whatever you believe, I hope that we all can love one another despite our differences. Love should not require us to agree on everything

What did Jesus really say?

Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me” (Jn 14:6). Did Jesus really mean God only saves those who accept Jesus? Keep in mind the majority of people born into this world have never heard of Jesus or had a Bible. This verse could easily be interpreted to mean Jesus’ way of life is the best path toward God. The path to God is through love. (See God After Deconstruction, Oord/Fuller Chapter 9). We Christians need to be less condemning and more open to God’s love and message to people of all religions.

What beliefs is required to get into Heaven?

Even Christians don’t all agree necessary beliefs for God to let you enter heaven after death. Christianity has thousands of denominations who have different beliefs. Interpretation of the Bible is not an infallible/exact science. Many agree to understand Jesus is to understand God. Jesus in his interactions didn’t seem to demand a certain prayer to repeat for salvation. Jesus in choosing disciples simply asked to follow him – Jesus’ path to love. The disciples didn’t believe many of Jesus’ claims until after his resurrection. If you saw someone come back from the dead, you might believe too.

Jesus came to advise how to start living here on earth, not what awaited in the afterlife, when asked how to have eternal life. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk10:25-37). Jesus understood loving God leads to loving your neighbor. One, if so inclined, can ask for God’s help in living a meaningful life here on earth. See here for more of Jesus’ interactions with others. So, many agree on actions encouraged for a godly life. Please tell me you don’t believe killing infidels in this life, opposing freedom of beliefs, is godly. Neither did Jesus in the afterlife.

Don’t I have to least believe in God and Jesus’ resurrection?

God isn’t a God of chance! The majority of people born into this world never had a Bible? The truth is the majority of people accept or rebel against a certain religion based on the family born into whether it be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. A child who was sexually abuse by their father may struggle to accept a God who is most often betrayed as our Father in Heaven. Do you really think a loving God is going to judge all based on their beliefs during a short time here on earth influenced by so many random factors?

I am not sure if Jesus was God in human form or God’s representative here on earth. Jesus did seem to have a lot in common what seems true about a loving God. I am convinced Jesus’ resurrection isn’t legend and has solid historical verification, but others may not. Jesus told followers He was coming back from the dead and they didn’t believe Him despite witnessing Jesus’ miracles beforehand. They only believed after seeing Jesus resurrected with their own eyes. I would like to think more of us if we witness a man or woman coming back from the grave, after killed on a cross, would believe in that person’s message. Don’t let doubts prevent taking steps toward God.

Isn’t God love and a  perfect parent’s love the same?

Your religion doesn’t matter here on earth. I am convinced those who enter heaven meet with God and a decision is made together. Want to live with God’s ways? You probably will be welcomed by God. God’s love surely is the same as supreme parents. Love gets excited when we do well and make a difference in the lives of others. God’s love anticipates, hopes for my success, believes in me, pulls for me even when failing, because I do the same for my children. God even loves doubters. Parents bring children into the world hoping their children freely reciprocate their love for authentic relationships. My kid can reject me all they want. When they express regret or beliefs in my ways whenever, I am all ears. Why would God’s love be any different?

Want to go to heaven. Start living now according to God’s ways. You will likely have fewer regrets in life after leaving this earth. Or take a chance your character won’t form here on earth and you do the unthinkable – when you meet God in the afterlife – you reject God’s ways.

There are good and bad religions

I am convinced Jesus of all people and prophets was the most like the true God. Decide from those who declare to be God’s messenger who is the most like a loving God. It should be investigated if Mohammed married a 6-year old and had intercourse when the child was 9. If true I am not following Mohammed. Jesus said “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea” (Mt 18:6). Jesus’ message rings true to me of a prophet to follow. I reject any prophet or God who rejects freedom of beliefs while here on earth or be killed. God doesn’t even do that in the afterlife aka hell.

How can we proceed without required beliefs? 

Billions in the past have believed in the possibility of a Creator. They couldn’t all be lunatics. Do you want to be more “in” with God? I am not sure there is anything to lose in beginning a journey of faith if the desire is to live life with fewer regrets. Personally, the biggest reason for being a God-follower is the inspiration and encouragement I sense in striving to be a better human being. Give God’s influence in your life a chance if so inclined. Moral values aren’t just found in a supposed inspired Book. It is only intuitive that a Creator loves the ways their creations ought to love one another. We all seem to know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly? Or am I loving others like I want to be loved.

See link below for further Posts concerning the afterlife and who is going to heaven

Which Religion Leads To Heaven

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Mike Edwards was added as a writer and has been a great addition to the site. Mike provides many interesting views and various ways of looking at things. He is not afraid to ask questions and he keeps an open mind as to teachings of the institutional church. Mike also has his own site where he writes at What God May Really Be Like 

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Top Posts Of 2024

Posted in christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, religion, The church, Word of God, tagged , , , , , , , on January 19, 2025|

By Mike Edwards

12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth!

What Is God’s Plan For Your Life?

Why Do People Leave The Church Building But Not God?

Why Do Many Deconstruct Or Deconvert From God?

Are Biblical Stories Helpful Or Harmful To Children?

God Is Exactly Like Who You Think!

9 Reasos To Not Trust The Bible’s Claims About God!

Why Don’t We Want To Call Ourselves A Christian Nation (Christian Nationalism)?

Can And Does God Control Your Suffering?

Did You Know The Bible Says Nothing About Marriage?

Did A Miracle Save Trump?

How Do You Decide What God Is Really Like?

Who Should We Vote For?

Is The Bible Really The Word Of God?

Who Goes To Heaven?

How Do You Not Turn A Child Away From God?

What Are Harmful Lies About God?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Why Listen to Humans When We Have the Spirit?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Jesus follower, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , on January 14, 2025|

by Michael Donahoe

Do you notice how we Christians get so caught up on which pastor, evangelist or leader becomes our focal point? We listen to this one or that one, read books from this guy, or listen to tapes by that woman. We attend a fellowship because we like the pastor, or we will drive miles to listen to a popular TV or radio evangelist. But wait a minute, doesn’t God’s word say that the Holy Spirit will teach and guide us? Aren’t we all brothers and sisters in Christ, all fellow-servants? We are not to be called leaders, no one is higher up than anyone else (Matthew 23:10 – Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ). We do not need anyone to teach us because we have the Spirit of Christ within us, the true living Word lives in each of us. In Christ, we are all His children, no one should be looked up to or revered more than anyone else. True, we can learn from one another by the way Christ works in each of our lives, but we should stop putting our hope in other people and start listening to the Holy Spirit that is within us for truth and guidance.

For many, it is hard accepting the fact that God lives within us. Sadly, the church rarely teaches or emphasizes this fact. We have been taught that if we listen to the pastor, read the Bible and live our lives trying to follow the commandments, one day we will go to heaven and live with God face to face. We have an image of God sitting on a throne way up in heaven and here we are, far, far away down on earth. Yet, Jesus said the Spirit lives within us, and the Kingdom of God is within us. We do not have to wait until some day in the future, we are living in the Kingdom right now.

Rather than spending time to focus on the inner voice, the inner intuition, we talk about going to a meeting and the Spirit showing up, or being at a specific place because God is there. We pray and talk with God, yet we wonder if our prayers are even being heard. The more I read, I am finding that we really have the whole thing backwards. God does not show up anywhere because God lives in us.

The Old Covenant has been fulfilled in Christ and we are now living under a New Covenant. We no longer have to try to be good enough. The law was a tutor that led us to Christ, but now that Christ has come, we no longer need a tutor. We are free from the law! The Spirit of God now lives within us.

Jesus came to live among us and show us the love of God. When Jesus left, he said he would send us the Spirit. Notice he did not say he would send us a pastor or a book. God has now come to live within us through the Spirit. Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we have the mind of Christ. Jesus prayed that we would be one with God just as he and God are one.

Sounds to me that we are missing the main point. We do not have to wait to die to go to heaven and enjoy kingdom living. We do not have to wait to be united with God. We no longer need to look to a human guide, teacher or preacher. We have the living, powerful, perfect Word of God living inside us who is our teacher and guide.

There is nothing wrong with listening to others, getting their thoughts and ideas and being encouraged by other believers, but we do not need to rely on other humans. We have the Spirit within us, teaching us and guiding us in the way we should go.

We do not have to look up in the sky to some far-away place and wonder if God is listening. We do not have to go to church to hear what the pastor has to say. We can turn our thoughts inward and realize the Spirit is right there within us, listening, loving us and ready to teach us as we begin to hear his voice from within.

We are all at different stages along the path we walk with God. We need to remember none of us have it all figured out. We so often want to fight and argue from the understanding we currently have without realizing that we have not reached completion. The Spirit did not stop teaching us when the Bible was completed. There is more the Spirit wants to teach us as we become ready to listen and accept it.

We should come to accept each other where we are currently, realizing what we know and believe today will more likely be different a little further down the road. We can love each other, learn from one another and accept each other as we are, just like Jesus loves and accepts us just as we are. Yet, our main goal is to look deep within ourselves, listening for the voice and guidance of the Spirit. We should not put our hope in others and those we think are more spiritual because they have been trained, educated or paid to do so. Remember, we are all kings and priests and have the same Spirit within us. Each of us are equal and important parts of the body with Christ as the head. His Church is not a building, not a denomination but it is the people.

This is not saying we are God, but the Spirit lives within us and we are one with God. It would do us all good to start focusing on this fact rather than thinking of a future event after we die. Kingdom living is now. Listening to the Spirit, being taught by the Spirit and living day by day in communion with God is a reality that we all need to live in each and every day.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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Getting Saved Isn’t About Going to Heaven or Hell!

Posted in christian living, Kingdom of God, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on January 12, 2025|

By Mike Edwards

I wrote recently here  what might be the greatest misunderstanding about God and getting saved. Christians often emphasize the main message about God and the Bible is avoiding hell and getting to heaven by saying the sinner’s prayer: “God, forgive me for my sins and thank you for dying on the Cross to pay the price for my wrongdoing.” No such prayer is found in the Bible. Recently, I failed to include the greatest objection below to what I am claiming – that the Apostle Paul, who wrote a lot of the New Testament, supposedly spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer. It is important because we may be misrepresenting God’s main message to us.

The main message can’t be about avoiding Hell 

I bet if you ask most non-church people what church people say is important about the Christian faith, they will talk about getting saved to go to heaven to avoid hell. The main message can’t be about Hell which doesn’t literally exist. See 12 Reasons To Believe Hell Is A Myth! There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell,” only possibly words used as metaphors to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What did Jesus say about eternal life? 

Jesus never spoke of something similar to the sinner’s prayer to make others feel secure about the afterlife. True, he couldn’t talk about the purpose of the Cross since hadn’t happen, but Jesus message seem to be more about the here and now, not trying to terrify you about the afterlife. When Jesus was asked how to have eternal life, Jesus didn’t speak about a physical destiny but life here on earth. (Lk.10:25-37) Jesus simply answered the question “love God and your neighbor,” speaking more about the quality than quantity of life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife.

When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living. When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees, pray, and ask for forgiveness! Jesus encouraged loving God because Jesus knew that leads to loving others.  The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. He might never see her again. Where was Jesus evangelical spiel?

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment?

It is argued that Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death. (Rm. 7:11) Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6).

God wasn’t so pissed to require Jesus’ death than yours

To insist God required Jesus be murdered on the Cross in place of you isn’t Godly or parental love. Google “theological views of Jesus’ death” for many interpretations about Jesus’ death. Did Jesus and the Romans have no choice but to murder Jesus for an unjust cause? Soldiers die for one another because of a cause they believe in. Jesus thought his message was worth dying for. Jesus accepting death than powering over others may be the reason billions have been influenced to live unselfishly. Jesus wanted to change our attitude about God, not to change God’s attitude toward us. What kind of God sees how the world has turned out and doesn’t just say the Hell with it, but instead enters such a world to experience underserved suffering via the Cross to inspire and relate? 

What really is God’s salvation?

Jesus spoke of a life, worth living, empowered by God, for your good and those you have relationships with. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as deep down you wish you could. I get help from God in pursuing a life with less regrets, of being the husband, father, friend, and man I truly want to be. It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us. God’s influence, though invisible, can be the same as a parent who has left this earth that you believed loved you to the fullest. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now with God’s help – a path toward great relationships.  

Getting Saved Isn’t About Going To Heaven Or Hell!

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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What Is Main Message about Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , on November 17, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Hell is certainly a message Christians get wrong. I am convinced a literal Hell is a biblical myth.  See here.  We get wrong that God thinks women can’t serve in the same religious or marriage roles that men can. Another myth. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. Another myth. See here. But the biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. People reject God based on claims about hell, women, or gays. But it is so important to know that God cares about you here and now and not about just the afterlife.

The main message isn’t about a literal Hell somewhere other than on earth

Gehenna, the Greek word translated as Hell in the New Testament, was the name of a real valley near Jerusalem with a history of terrible, ending slaughter.  Gehenna is best translated Gehenna just as Mount Everest is best translated Mount Everest. There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell.” Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible biblically or morally.   See here.  See here. 

The main message isn’t about God saving us to enter Heaven away from Earth 

Jesus taught as if God’s Kingdom was near, not coming in distant future. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mk 9:1) The Good News throughout the Gospels refers to a Kingdom here on earth now. The kingdom of God “has come upon you” (Mt 12:28) and “is in your midst.” (Lk 17:21) The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.”

What about eternal life?

Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships.

What did the earliest Gospel says how Jesus spoke to others? 

I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ main message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living.
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment? 

The Apostle Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death (Rm. 7:11). Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6). The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What about life after death?

We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. It is reasonable to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

God only seeks to inspire you to avoid a life full of regrets

We are told the message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself now. You may be different than me, but I get help from God in pursuing a life not full of regrets. Try it! It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us.  If you refuse to love, you may end up a lonely, regretful soul.

What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Who Goes To Heaven?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , on November 10, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

I don’t believe the main message of the Bible and Jesus is about saving you from Hell so you can enter Heaven, but most of us wonder what happens after death. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. Jesus seemed more focused on life here on earth than life after death. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us (John 16), not waiting to be rescued from earth to heaven. Besides, the Bible’s message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell.

Hell is morally and biblically impossible! 

Many who believe God exist suggest God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever.

The Bible might even declare all go to heaven

It is suggested by many religious leaders that according to the Bible some go to hell and some go to heaven, though doubtful a literal Hell exist. Some may suggest that some will simply die and others go to heaven. The problem is the Bible, being literature, requires interpretation. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

What did Jesus say about heaven or eternal life?

The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.” Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). The emphasis appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help!

More of what Jesus said through the eyes of Mark

Most Christians believe to understand Jesus is to understand God. I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus seemingly sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. I don’t see any message to the disciples other than living a life worth living.
  • Jesus said “Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3:35) Being close to God or Jesus isn’t claiming certain beliefs or traditions; Jesus simply encouraged actions that lead to loving others as yourself. “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.” (Mark 9:35)
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are similar to when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Why not live like hell here on earth?

One may think that if Hell isn’t a reality and who knows about Heaven – why not live our sinful fantasies? I experience such actions end up in misery. I know I am a better husband, father, and friend because of God’s influence. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Decide on short or long-term happiness. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. 

What’s next in afterlife?

The Bible suggests, whether having faith here on earth or not, all will be judged. After death God may bring to memory actions of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death. We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves.

Who Goes To Heaven?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , , on May 12, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

You may not want to read this Post if you never question or doubt if God is real, if everything the Bible claims about God is true, and you are convinced hell or heaven is a certainty. For some though it is normal to struggle to believe in an invisible God, to wonder if Jesus really resurrected from the dead since they weren’t there. No one can prove if there is really an afterlife after death. God never informed Old Testament writers of such a place. See here. Some may have questions after hearing different opinions in biblical scholarship. Many didn’t grow up with religious teaching and so rightly wonder claims made by religious folks. Is there a reason to follow God with so many doubts or questions?

What if I am not sure the stories of Jesus resurrected from the dead are true?

I currently am convinced Jesus’ resurrection isn’t legend and has historical verification, but others may not. I don’t believe God hates me if I change my mind. Jesus’ disciples didn’t believe Jesus was coming back from the dead, despite witnessing Jesus’ miracles beforehand, until seeking Jesus after his death with their own eyes. I would like to think many of us seeing a man or woman coming back from the grave, after killed on a cross, would be convinced.  I have a hunch God cares the most that you believe in the possibility of a loving God to begin a faith journey.

Who was Jesus really?

One may read, if not reading only conservative Christian viewpoints, that the Jesus’ sayings for accuracy in the Gospels has many problems. After all, the biblical writers wrote 40 years later what Jesus supposedly said through oral traditions handed down. You should read what my kids claim I said decades ago! Maybe it doesn’t matter if the biblical writers 40 years later recorded Jesus’ words exactly. Today, we take things so literally. Maybe back in NT times, they were writing not for historical accuracy but weaving a story about what they thought Jesus was trying to teach (the meaning behind the text).

Does the Bible always get God right?

Ever read the Bible closely. Claims made about God don’t seem like a loving God. Leaders tout that God inspired/approved all written in the Bible, yet some actions contributed to God by the writers make no moral sense. Unfortunately, newcomers will be directed to read the Bible and be horrified reading about some of God’s supposed actions. Rationalizations are given to explain such actions about God to protect God’s inspiration of the Bible (writers understood God perfectly). I suggest instead considering if biblical writers always understood God correctly.  See here.

Is following God worth it with so many questions?

I am convinced living a godly life is worth it, even if God doesn’t exist. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! You may have fun but your loved ones won’t. God only wants to help pursuing a life not full of regrets. Personally, following what I believe a loving God to be like has inspired and encouraged me to be the person I desire to be. The journey is worth it. Most are convinced Jesus was a very real person who lived in the first century. Let’s debate his teachings. We are often told the main message of the Bible is Jesus coming to save you from Hell. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. What do we have to lose treating one another like we want to be treated?

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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