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Posts Tagged ‘heaven’

By Mike Edwards

Hell is certainly a message Christians get wrong. I am convinced a literal Hell is a biblical myth.  See here.  We get wrong that God thinks women can’t serve in the same religious or marriage roles that men can. Another myth. See here. Also, we get wrong that God condemns gays according to the Bible. Another myth. See here. But the biggest myth may be that God’s main message according to the Bible is that salvation is about going to Heaven or Hell rather than how to live life here on earth. People reject God based on claims about hell, women, or gays. But it is so important to know that God cares about you here and now and not about just the afterlife.

The main message isn’t about a literal Hell somewhere other than on earth

Gehenna, the Greek word translated as Hell in the New Testament, was the name of a real valley near Jerusalem with a history of terrible, ending slaughter.  Gehenna is best translated Gehenna just as Mount Everest is best translated Mount Everest. There is no word in Hebrew or Greek for “hell.” Jesus used Gehenna to illustrate that spiritual death is as tragic as physical death. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible biblically or morally.   See here.  See here. 

The main message isn’t about God saving us to enter Heaven away from Earth 

Jesus taught as if God’s Kingdom was near, not coming in distant future. “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mk 9:1) The Good News throughout the Gospels refers to a Kingdom here on earth now. The kingdom of God “has come upon you” (Mt 12:28) and “is in your midst.” (Lk 17:21) The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.”

What about eternal life?

Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. (Lk.10:25-37). Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven away from this Earth. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor. “Eternal” appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help. The Bible/Jesus/God’s message isn’t dropping to your knees to avoid Hell to go to Heaven after death, but start loving now – a path toward great relationships.

What did the earliest Gospel says how Jesus spoke to others? 

I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ main message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. The main message to the disciples was living a life worth living.
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are like when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Didn’t Paul though preach repent to avoid punishment? 

The Apostle Paul did say “believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rm 10:9) Paul recognized Jesus’ death and resurrection, but Jesus’ sacrifice was to draw attention to the Good News already proclaimed by Paul – God’s desire to empower unselfish living. Paul preached about the Kingdom of God being here (Acts). Paul did say “the wages of sin is death.” (Rm. 6:23) But Paul is speaking of spiritual death because Paul is still alive though sin has put him to death (Rm. 7:11). Paul mentions Heaven twice in Romans, yet says nothing about Jesus dying so we can go to Heaven (Rm. 1:18, 10:6). The Apostle Paul who wrote most of the NT never refers to Hell. No prophet in the OT warned of Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth.

What about life after death?

We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. It is reasonable to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

God only seeks to inspire you to avoid a life full of regrets

We are told the message of the Bible is Jesus coming to give you salvation to save you from Hell so you could enter Heaven. I believe Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself now. You may be different than me, but I get help from God in pursuing a life not full of regrets. Try it! It’s on God to come through for you if you choose to follow. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us.  If you refuse to love, you may end up a lonely, regretful soul.

What Is Main Message About Bible/Jesus That Christians Get Wrong?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

I don’t believe the main message of the Bible and Jesus is about saving you from Hell so you can enter Heaven, but most of us wonder what happens after death. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. Jesus seemed more focused on life here on earth than life after death. Jesus when leaving this earth spoke of having God’s spirit within us (John 16), not waiting to be rescued from earth to heaven. Besides, the Bible’s message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell.

Hell is morally and biblically impossible! 

Many who believe God exist suggest God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever.

The Bible might even declare all go to heaven

It is suggested by many religious leaders that according to the Bible some go to hell and some go to heaven, though doubtful a literal Hell exist. Some may suggest that some will simply die and others go to heaven. The problem is the Bible, being literature, requires interpretation. It is possible to interpret the Bible as claiming all eventually go to be with God after death.  See here.

What did Jesus say about heaven or eternal life?

The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.” Jesus was asked by a religious leader how to have eternal life. Jesus elsewhere defined eternal life as beginning in the here and now (Jn 17:3), not what awaited in the afterlife. I doubt the leader had in mind how to get into Heaven. Jesus simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). The emphasis appears to be on the quality not quantity in life. Jesus spoke of a life worth living being a loving life empowered by God. Jesus’ salvation was about living a meaningful life here on earth with God’s help!

More of what Jesus said through the eyes of Mark

Most Christians believe to understand Jesus is to understand God. I read through the Gospel of Mark to see what Jesus’ message was to others. Mark’s Gospel is considered the earliest written from which Matthew and Luke cited. In all the Gospels Jesus never advises to preach to the masses to save them from Hell in the afterlife. Jesus seemingly sought to help others avoid hell here on earth. Sin is destructive. It has natural consequences.

  • When Jesus met his disciples, he only said “follow me.” (Mark 1: 16:17, 2:14) A set of beliefs wasn’t required. I don’t see any message to the disciples other than living a life worth living.
  • Jesus said “Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3:35) Being close to God or Jesus isn’t claiming certain beliefs or traditions; Jesus simply encouraged actions that lead to loving others as yourself. “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.” (Mark 9:35)
  • People were bringing children to Jesus and he said “anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15) The kingdom of God was not a future home but a current reality. Jesus has just said “some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.” (Mark 9:1)
  • A rich person asked how to have eternal life. Jesus said sell everything and follow me. (Mark 10: 17-31) Surely Jesus’ point was to love people more than possessions. What does following Jesus mean? When asked what was the greatest commandments, Jesus only said to love God and your neighbors (Mark 12:30-31). What! Not drop to your knees and say a prayer!
  • The above interactions are similar to when Jesus dealt with the women caught in adultery. (Jn. 7:53-8:11) Jesus only encouraged the woman to go and sin no more. Where was his evangelical spiel. He might never see her again! Apparently, Jesus came to encourage living a loving life toward others and yourself.

Why not live like hell here on earth?

One may think that if Hell isn’t a reality and who knows about Heaven – why not live our sinful fantasies? I experience such actions end up in misery. I know I am a better husband, father, and friend because of God’s influence. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Decide on short or long-term happiness. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come. 

What’s next in afterlife?

The Bible suggests, whether having faith here on earth or not, all will be judged. After death God may bring to memory actions of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death. We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves.

Who Goes To Heaven?

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

You may not want to read this Post if you never question or doubt if God is real, if everything the Bible claims about God is true, and you are convinced hell or heaven is a certainty. For some though it is normal to struggle to believe in an invisible God, to wonder if Jesus really resurrected from the dead since they weren’t there. No one can prove if there is really an afterlife after death. God never informed Old Testament writers of such a place. See here. Some may have questions after hearing different opinions in biblical scholarship. Many didn’t grow up with religious teaching and so rightly wonder claims made by religious folks. Is there a reason to follow God with so many doubts or questions?

What if I am not sure the stories of Jesus resurrected from the dead are true?

I currently am convinced Jesus’ resurrection isn’t legend and has historical verification, but others may not. I don’t believe God hates me if I change my mind. Jesus’ disciples didn’t believe Jesus was coming back from the dead, despite witnessing Jesus’ miracles beforehand, until seeking Jesus after his death with their own eyes. I would like to think many of us seeing a man or woman coming back from the grave, after killed on a cross, would be convinced.  I have a hunch God cares the most that you believe in the possibility of a loving God to begin a faith journey.

Who was Jesus really?

One may read, if not reading only conservative Christian viewpoints, that the Jesus’ sayings for accuracy in the Gospels has many problems. After all, the biblical writers wrote 40 years later what Jesus supposedly said through oral traditions handed down. You should read what my kids claim I said decades ago! Maybe it doesn’t matter if the biblical writers 40 years later recorded Jesus’ words exactly. Today, we take things so literally. Maybe back in NT times, they were writing not for historical accuracy but weaving a story about what they thought Jesus was trying to teach (the meaning behind the text).

Does the Bible always get God right?

Ever read the Bible closely. Claims made about God don’t seem like a loving God. Leaders tout that God inspired/approved all written in the Bible, yet some actions contributed to God by the writers make no moral sense. Unfortunately, newcomers will be directed to read the Bible and be horrified reading about some of God’s supposed actions. Rationalizations are given to explain such actions about God to protect God’s inspiration of the Bible (writers understood God perfectly). I suggest instead considering if biblical writers always understood God correctly.  See here.

Is following God worth it with so many questions?

I am convinced living a godly life is worth it, even if God doesn’t exist. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! You may have fun but your loved ones won’t. God only wants to help pursuing a life not full of regrets. Personally, following what I believe a loving God to be like has inspired and encouraged me to be the person I desire to be. The journey is worth it. Most are convinced Jesus was a very real person who lived in the first century. Let’s debate his teachings. We are often told the main message of the Bible is Jesus coming to save you from Hell. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. What do we have to lose treating one another like we want to be treated?

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Jim Gordon

Yes, I admit it. I have become a religious heretic. So, what is a heretic? According to the dictionary, it is a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted; the formal denial or doubt of a core doctrine of the Christian faith as defined by one or more of the Christian churches.

First let me say, the following are my thoughts and opinions. I am not saying I am right or wrong, but is where I am at now. I have changed my views over the past several years, and I will most likely change my views over the next several years. We are all entitled to our opinions and we should accept each other with the opinions we have. We certainly will not all agree.

After spending nearly sixty years in the institutional church (including from the time my parents took me as a baby and young child), my wife and I left the organization because we no longer felt we could completely agree with many of the church doctrines and generally accepted ways of the church. What led up to this decision was the many years within the church that taught me some things that I finally had to question.

I remember I went to church whenever the doors were open. I felt that I was going to God’s house and the Spirit may fall during a service and I did not want to miss it. I felt the pastor was well trained in spiritual matters and he was the middleman between God and me. I looked to the pastor for all the answers and to teach me more about God and what I should be doing.

Obviously, I believed that Christianity was the only way to know God and to be a true follower of Jesus. I always thought that Jesus came to start a new religion that would be the only correct way to follow him and only those who followed that religion would be saved.

I always held the Bible in very high regard. I felt it was dictated by God to humans, who carefully wrote everything down so we would have a perfect book about God. It was a love story and a rule book that would guide us each day of our lives. I believed the Bible was the true, inerrant and perfect word of God and it was clear on what it said.

I was one who believed people needed to get right with God or they would end up in Hell after they passed from this earth. Hell was created for the Devil and his angels, but people who rejected God would end up there also. Hell was also a great way to make people afraid enough to make a decision for Christ and boost church attendance.

How many times have we been told that God is our father, a male figure sitting on a throne in Heaven watching down on us, just waiting for us to mess up so he can punish us. If God did not see Jesus in us, then we were all doomed. Even Jesus called him father, so what else could he be?

Now, after becoming totally unsatisfied with what I had always been taught, I started to ask questions and seek answers from someone other than the pastor. I found books and podcasts of others who had other interpretations and views that really made sense. I found many people who had left the institution and were asking questions and finding answers other than the traditional ones the church always taught.

I came to see that church is not God’s house after-all, and the Spirit does not fall at specific places or at certain times. We the people are the church. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit who came to live within us once and for all. The Kingdom of God is within us. The church as we know it is just a building where people meet to fellowship and learn about God, but it is not necessary to attend and there is nothing wrong with not attending if you so choose.

I know there are many religions in the world and that Christianity was not started by Jesus. It is just another man-made organization, but based on the person of Jesus. There are many religions and I believe we can learn from each of them. I believe if Jesus walked the earth today, he would not be a Christian nor attend a church. He would be accepting of all people no matter their personal religious beliefs.

I found that the Bible never claims to be the Word of God, and never claims to be inerrant. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and our guide. John wrote that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. He also added the word became flesh and dwelt among us. That certainly is not a book. We can learn from the Bible because it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, yet it is not dictated by God and it is not inerrant. I personally feel that the Bible has a lot of allegory and parables that point out spiritual truth, but it is not always actual events.

In regard to hell, I began to wonder how can a God of love create such a place. In the Bible, when it talks about hell (actually Gehenna) it was talking about a dumping ground/sacrificial area outside of Jerusalem. The idea of such a place has its origins in early Christianity, where those who rejected Christ were threatened with eternal torture in a lake of fire, called Tartarus or Gehenna (from Greek mythology and a nearby trash pit, respectively). I think that the theory of hell was started by the early church as a scare tactic to bring people into the church. Hell is a fear-based topic, but we know that perfect love casts out fear. Love draws and there is nothing about love in the theory of hell.

I believe that God is not some super-hero man sitting in heaven watching down on everyone. God is Spirit and the Spirit of God lives within us. God does have male and female traits, but God is not a male nor female. We are the temple; the Spirit of God lives within us. Could it be that the writers of the Bible were following what was common in their day, where women were property and only men were worthy. Did they use their prejudices when writing what would become the Bible by referring to God as male and Father? Personally, I think so. It is all written from a male perspective.

So, as you can see, I am definitely considered a heretic among the traditional Christian church-goers. I have no ill-will toward any of them. At one point, I was where they are now in my beliefs, but I no longer accept or follow the traditional doctrines taught within most churches today. I do follow the example of Jesus of loving God and loving others.

Obviously, these are all only my opinions and views. I may be right or I may be wrong. I do not force these views on anyone else. Each of us are free to chose for ourselves what we believe. What we are to do is love one another even in our differences, accept each other as we are and live life trying to help and encourage our fellow human beings along the way.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

Has the real Gospel been hijacked? Church folks have been told forever that Jesus’ life and death on the Cross was to spare us from going to Hell to appease God’s anger about our sins. Can human, much less spiritual relationships, be built on fear and anger rather than love and grace? No wonder many don’t want to talk to us God-folks. We are too busy trying to save them from a fiery afterlife rather than discussing how God’s presence in our life now helps us become more the person we desire to become deep down. Godly living in this world leads to a meaningful life with less regrets.  

Jesus’ message couldn’t be about avoiding Hell and getting into Heaven 

Many of us who attended the institutional church were taught that God’s main mission was to save us from hell so we could go to heaven after death here on earth. All we had to do was say a prayer: “Thank you Jesus for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive me. I receive You as my Lord and Savior. Help me to live for you.” I can find no place in the Bible where Jesus advised such a prayer or demanded certain confessions to follow Him. The Good News couldn’t be about escaping a fiery, torturous God if such a hell isn’t biblical. See here.

Did Jesus really die on the Cross to appease God’s anger? 

Biblical scholars with interpretation expertise suggest many explanations about Jesus’ death. See here.  It seems to me that we may still be talking about Jesus’ life about love, because He was willing to die rather than power over others. Jesus’ death rather than His power has inspired billions to live unselfishly. Terrorists blow others up for a message they feel strongly about. Jesus only blew Himself up for a message He believed very strongly in – seek God’s help in loving others like you want to be loved.

  • If Jesus had to die to appease God, why did Jesus pray to not have to die (Mt. 26:39)?
  • How does an innocent person suffering really atone for another person’s sins? It doesn’t make “loving sense” to forgive a child by punishing another child.
  • If Jesus’ death was required for forgiveness, why in the OT did God often forgive the Israelites? In the New Testament Jesus forgave others before dying on the Cross (Mt. 9:2; Lk. 7:48, etc.)

God cares the most about helping us to do good not evil in our relationships

Understand Jesus, understand God! Jesus didn’t speak of a certain prayer to repeat. Jesus commended Zacchaeus for recognizing a journey necessary to avoid personal destruction. Salvation is not a future destination but a currently reality (Lk 19). Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8). When Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life, He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37). Loving God leads to loving others. Jesus hung with the despised to reveal God’s love for all. Jesus confronted the religious who kept laws but didn’t follow Jesus with their heart. Jesus sought changes of the heart for the good of the world.

How can God help us? 

A relationship with God isn’t a future but current reality. Surely a loving God seeks to encourage us to pursue heavenly than worldly ways here on earth. God seeks to empower us to be the unselfish people we deep down desire to be. Maybe Jesus thought dying unjustly, rather than miraculously jumping off the Cross, revealed evil and God’s willingness to suffer with us and help. Who kills someone for simply claiming to be God? Many of us need to feel forgiven for the behaviors we have committed. God is dying to forgive you of wrong doing in hopes to inspire you to change for your interests and the interests of others.

Jesus Didn’t Die To Save You From Hell – Why Then?

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Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

In theological circles, arguments are made that a belief in Universalism (all are going to be saved any way and go to heaven after death) makes evangelism (encouraging others to have a relationship with God) pointless. I wrote about Universalism here.  There are biblical and moral reasons to argue for the possibility that all will be eventually saved in this life or in the life after death. I am not convinced such a belief makes influencing others toward God a wasted endeavor.

First of all Hell as a reason for faith is doubtful

I wrote that Hell (a place of forever punishment) is doubtful biblically and even morally from a loving God. See here.   See here.  The institutional church often teaches that God’s main mission is to save us from hell, so we could go to heaven after death here on earth. All we have to do is say a prayer: “Thank you Jesus for dying on the cross for my sins. Please forgive me. I receive You as my Lord and Savior. Help me to live for you.” I can find no place in the Bible where Jesus advised such a prayer or demanded certain confessions to follow Him. The threat of Hell can’t possibly lead to a genuine relationship with God. Who wouldn’t just say the prayer to avoid torture?

Why then encourage others to consider faith in God here on earth? 

The Bible seems to suggest God seeks to empower us to be the unselfish people we deep down desire to be. Jesus sought to inspire others to seek God’s help in loving others for the good of the world. Jesus simply commended Zacchaeus for recognizing a journey necessary to avoid personal destruction because of sin. Salvation is not a future destination but a current reality (Lk 19).  Jesus told the woman who had committed adultery: “go now, and leave your life of sin” (John 8).  A relationship with God isn’t a future but current reality. Surely a loving God seeks to encourage us to pursue heavenly than worldly ways here on earth for our own happiness.

Why not live like hell here on earth?

I have been under God’s influence most of my life. I’m not necessarily more moral than many who don’t have a relationship with God. I am positive though I am a better husband, father, and friend because of God’s influence. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Decide on short or long-term happiness. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come.

What’s next?

The Bible talks about everyone, whether having faith here on earth or not, will be judged. After death God may bring to memory actions of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death. We don’t know exactly what happens after life here on earth. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do. It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God can choose to take forever in this life and the life to come to save everyone from themselves.

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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By Mike Edwards

I admit the title of this Post is bold. If my title had been “Where Will One End Up After Death?” you may not have bothered to read, assuming I would support common claims about the threat of Hell if you dare to rebel against God. Translation and interpretation challenges don’t guarantee a definitive answer from a Book. Also, biblical writers may not know all about the afterlife because God didn’t speak to them directly. We are free to speculate about a loving God’s character and actions. I have a strong inclination all are going to heaven!

Hell is morally and biblically impossible 

Many who believe God exist agree God has given us moral intuitions to discern evil from good. We don’t need a Book to know sexual abuse or murder is wrong. God creating a literal Hell where people are tortured for billions of years for beliefs held a short time here on earth isn’t possible morally or biblically. See here. See here. Humans wouldn’t even create such a place for our enemies. God or humans can’t possibly be happy in heaven if loved ones are tormented after death forever. If God supposedly has such control over happiness, why not use the same power over rebelliousness?

God giving up isn’t divinely possible 

God’s nature doesn’t allow giving up on forgiving. There are consequences in this life and there may be painful reckonings in the life to come, but God can’t stop showing grace. Why would God undergo a complete character lobotomy after we take our last breath here on earth? Is a thief going to enter Paradise but not others with lesser sins because they weren’t next to Jesus hanging on Cross right before their last breath? God’s grace doesn’t depend on whether one has more opportunities to respond to God than others. Even imperfect human parents wouldn’t cut off a child who eventually accepts responsibilities for their actions. 

Turns out even the Bible suggests all will be saved

Skeptic readers may argue that the Bible clearly says only those who believe go to Heaven. One may be surprised that just as many verses imply God will save everyone. David Bentley Hart reminds us of the many verses in the Bible that suggest God will eventually save all. The following verses are Hart’s translation from the Greek as he attempts to not include or add words that may make the reading easier or possible convey a translator’s personal belief about being saved:

Romans 5:18-19

So, then, just as through one transgression came condemnation for all human beings, so also through one act of righteousness came a rectification of life for all human beings; for, just as by the heedlessness of one man the many were rendered sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be rendered righteous 

I Cor 15:22

For just as in Adam all die, so also in the Anointed (Christ) all will be given life 

2 Cor 5:14

For the love of the Anointed constrains us, having reached this judgment: that one died on behalf of all; all then have died

Rom 11:32

For God shut up everyone in obstinacy so that he might show mercy to everyone

I Tim 2:3-6

…our savior God, who intends all human beings to be saved and come to a full knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and also one mediator of God and human beings: a human being, the Anointed One Jesus, who gave himself as a liberation fee for all

Titus 2: 11

For the grace of God has appeared, giving salvation to all human beings

John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will drag everyone to me

John 12:47

For I came not that I might judge the cosmos, but that I might save the cosmos

I John 4:14

And we have seen and attest that the Father has sent the Son as savior of the cosmos

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not delaying what is prompted, as some reckon delay, but is magnanimous toward you, intending for no one to perish, but rather for all to advance to a change of heart

Philip 2:9-11

For which reasons God also exalted him on high and graced him with the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend – of beings heavenly and earthly and subterranean – and every tongue gladly confess that Jesus the Anointed is Lord, for the glory of God the Father

I John 2:2

And he is atonement for our sins, and not only for ours, but for the whole cosmos

I Tim 4:10

We have hoped in a living God who is the savior of all human beings especially those who have faith

What about Justice? 

Punishment doesn’t bring back a victim’s robbed memories of the future due to the murder of a loved one. Real justice is understanding your victim’s pain and accepting the harmfulness of your actions. After death God may bring to memory every action of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. Humans like God may forgive their enemies if they truly regret their actions and seek forgiveness. Justice from a fair, merciful God is possible despite people being given a second chance after death.

What would a loving God do after death here on Earth? 

We don’t know what happens after life here on earth. No one can claim the Bible has the definitive answer. We are free to speculate what a loving God might do.  It is just as reasonable, if not more reasonable, to believe a loving God that is able to create will take forever, if necessary, to save everyone from themselves. God only wants to help you become the person you deep down desire to come. We will fail but God is quick to forgive and help us to get back up. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! Careful the regrets you, your family, and friends will feel at the end of your life. Careful that our character developed here on earth may make the change process longer and more painful in the life to come.

All Will End Up In Heaven According To The Bible!

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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by Jim Gordon

Many of us who went to church have been told about the Kingdom of God. Mostly, we think it is a place somewhere in the sky, far, far away from us at this point. We think that one day, after we die, we will go to live with God in the Kingdom.

This way of thinking not only teaches the Kingdom of God is far away, but also God is far away. I remember the pastor saying that we needed to be at a certain service because God is going to show up and we do not want to miss it, or the Spirit is going to fall and we need to be there. The Spirit was given and fell many years ago after Jesus ascended back to the Spirit world. The Spirit, or the spiritual presence of God within us, was given so we would not be left comfortless or without a guide.

I personally think the church has greatly missed a very important aspect about God and the Kingdom. Most churches do not emphasize that God and the Kingdom are here right now. Jesus said in John 14:23 “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them”. To me, if God has made his home with us, then we are certainly living in the Kingdom of God.

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Kingdom of God is within us. That means right now, God’s Spirit lives within us and we are living in the Kingdom of God. We are still also living in the kingdom of the world and in an earthly body, so we are not living in a perfect, spiritual state yet. I have come to believe more and more that the Kingdom of God is not necessarily a coming heavenly kingdom, but it is our life with God right here and now. Our old, earthly man was renewed through Christ and a new man was raised up with Christ. Jesus is our king, and we are currently living with him in his Kingdom every day.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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by Michael Donahoe

Growing up in church and the Christian world, I always felt I had some fairly important facts figured out about God. I always thought that what I was taught in church was the absolute truth and complete facts because, after all, the pastor was called by God and the pastor should know everything. Where God lived. Where I would go when I die.

Yet, as time goes by and I become more open to actually questioning some of what I was told in church, I have come to think of some of these things a little differently.

We are taught that the house of God was the church where we went to worship and learn about God. We were told that God was a man sitting on a throne somewhere out there in what we call heaven. We were told when we die, we would go to heaven to live with God forever.

I think we are missing some important truths in regard to these matters. We as Christians often take what we were told in church and think it is fact. We will fight and defend our views when people disagree, yet we really have no actual proof of some of the things we so quickly defend.

As I read more and think about things, it is clear we are missing some very important topics Jesus talked about. He said the Kingdom of God is within us, he said he was sending another comforter who would teach us and guide us. He said that we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we have the mind of Christ. We tend to skip over these statements and continue to look to outward expressions of where God lives and what life after death will be like.

I think we are missing the fact that God is not somewhere out there, sitting on a throne. God does not show up now and then in a building that we call church. God is spirit and God is not a man or woman with a physical body. Although God does have male and female attributes, God is neither. We need to remember the customs and ways of life during the time the bible was being written. Men were in charge and women were usually considered property. The writers would naturally use male terminology for the God they were writing about.

As spirit, God does not live in a specific physical place. We are the closest thing because we are the dwelling place of the Spirit, yet God is everywhere. Physically speaking, we are God’s body, hands and feet on this earth. We know God is with us because God said we would never be left alone or forsaken by God.

Again, we seem to be so sure of the things we know about God and the afterlife, yet we really have no proof. It is all by faith, and many of it is our personal interpretations of bible verses or which pastor we listened to and followed. Rather than take a stand and argue with people about things we really do not know for sure, accept the fact that others have different views and opinions and there is no need to fight and argue over things we really do not know as facts.

There is nothing wrong with saying we do not know, there is nothing wrong with uncertainty. There is nothing wrong with questions and doubts. God is able to handle them all. We take by faith that God has what is best for us planned. We take by faith that there is a spirit world and we will be with God once we leave this earth. Take comfort in those thoughts, but also do not force your beliefs on others. Allow them the freedom to make up their own mind and follow what they believe.

God has given us free will to choose for ourselves who we will serve and what we will believe. Let us remember to do the same for our fellow human beings. The only thing Jesus told us to do was to love God and love one another.

Let me close with a few words by my friend, Chris Kratzer on the matter:

“If we search for God’s heart in the Scriptures, we open up a world of personal opinion, conjecture, and unresolvable debate.

If we search for God’s heart in the annals of Christianity history, we open up a trail of inconsistency, human fallibility, and religious conquest.

If we search for God’s heart in church, we open up a door into unending interpretations, conditional relationships, and spiritual franchising.

Yet, if we search for God within us, we find Her mind, we find our rest, we find ourselves, and we find our purpose.

We cannot know God outside of ourselves until we discover Her within ourselves”.

https://myopinionblog.substack.com/

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By Mike Edwards

We can only speculate what happens after death, but it makes sense to explore if God gave the biblical writers special insights about the afterlife. That means talking about heaven and hell. One must admit Hell makes no moral sense – a loving God a sadistic torturer? Imperfect humans wouldn’t even create such a place for their enemies. A loving God couldn’t possibly torture anyone forever since such pain serves no lasting purpose. I am convinced the Bible agrees. 

The Old Testament says nothing about the traditional understanding of Hell

Adam and Eve weren’t warned of Hell if eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Noah warned of a global destructive flood, but he was silent on Hell as a consequence for behaviors here on earth. So were the OT prophets. The Hebrew word Sheol in the Old Testament, translated into the English word Hell, described a place of darkness occupied by the dead regardless of beliefs – not a torture chamber for unbelievers (Job 10:18-22). Some Bibles translate Sheol as Sheol.

What does the New Testament say about Hell?

The Greek word Gehenna is translated into the English world Hell. In ancient times children were sacrificed in fire at Gehenna, a valley outside Jerusalem. Many scholars consider Gehenna a metaphor used by Jesus to describe how an evil life leads to destruction, not a fiery place where sinners go for never-ending punishment. Also, it is odd that the main writer of the NT, the Apostle Paul, never mentioned Hell. Finally, the Lake of Fire in the Book of Revelation is likely figurative, unless dragons with seven heads and ten horns really exist (Rev. 12:3).

What did Jesus say about heaven or eternal life?

The word “heaven” appears the most in the Gospel of Matthew. The Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a place to go after life on earth. Jesus sought to bring heavenly love to earth – “on earth as in heaven.” Jesus was asked by a religious expert how to have eternal life. He simply said to love God and your neighbor (Lk.10:25-37) – loving God is loving your neighbor. Jesus didn’t speak on quantity of life after death but about the quality of life living here on earth – kingdom living.

How might God handle justice after death?

Punishment doesn’t bring back a victim’s robbed memories of the future due to the murder of a loved one. Real justice is understanding your victim’s pain and accepting the harmfulness of your actions. After death God may bring to memory every unrepented action of betrayal and how it felt to their victims. The cleansing and educative effect may take longer for some than others. We can have less concerns about justice in the future by accepting God’s influence in our life here on earth. 

What would a good God promise? 

The Bible suggests God seeks to influence us to do all the good we can, in all the places we can, at all the times we can, to all the people we can, as long as we can. Make sense if a good God exists. Isn’t such a legacy your deep-down desire? Belief in an invisible God takes faith. The advantage of a relationship with a loving God is that there is a voice outside imperfect beings – a God who inspires, forgives, encourages. I have faith that a God who can create can provide life after death.

Does God Promise Heaven Or Hell Or What?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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