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Posts Tagged ‘LGBTQ’

Why Is It Best To Assume The Bible Isn’t Inspired By God?

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, tagged , , , , , , on January 7, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

I have written here concerns about the Bible. We should always question interpretations since biblical scholars interpret differently the same passages, especially since few acknowledge their interpretation could be wrong. The challenge is many interpret their inspired Book as God being violent or advocating violence. This has led to imitating or justifying violence in the name of a perfect loving God. We should then also question if the Bible is inspired by God. We can’t prove God controlled the writers’ thoughts to always understand God perfectly. Anyway, even if all agree on interpretation, which is rare, we should still question if God really inspired the writers’ thoughts if contradictory of a loving God.

How an inspired Book can lead to violence

Many interpret the Quran or the Bible advocating killing Jews or condemning gays respectively, because Allah or God supposedly approves such actions. Most, especially extremists, don’t acknowledge their interpretation could be wrong. God supposedly orders Israel to commit hundreds of atrocities in the OT – “… put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys” (I Sam. 15:3). God’s possible justification of violence can lead to imitation of violent solutions such as capital punishment, blowing up abortion clinics, or unnecessary wars in the name of God. I believe it is more critical to question if the Bible is inspired by God, making one’s interpretation the lesser debate since most believe their interpretation is correct.  

Debatable interpretations are often assumed to perfectly represent God

The truth is biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, hell, and other moral issues. See here.  See here.  See here.  Gays are often condemned, women’s leadership roles are limited despite their gifts, and it is suggested a fiery torturous afterlife awaits infidels in God’s name. Extremists often will advocate killing infidels in this life according to their interpretation of an inspired Book. If we can question if writers always understood God perfectly, we can naturally wonder if God’s actions would ever violate our moral intuitions of a loving God regardless of one’s interpretation.

Moral truths aren’t hidden in a Book

Even the Bible suggests we aren’t morally clueless. We are encouraged to be perfect like God (Mt. 5:48) or follow God’s example (Eph 5:1). Such statements make no sense if presumptuous to imagine what a loving God is like though our moral consciences. See here. Consider a Book’s writer or editor didn’t understand God fully if your interpretation of a passage is contrary to your moral intuition of a loving God. I am of course talking to rational people who understand we ought to treat others like we want to be treated. 

How can we view the Bible?

The Bible can be viewed as God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in any other document. God didn’t necessarily inspire or approve of everything written about God. When reading the Bible, question and contemplate what a loving God is really like. Imagine if extremists had to consider that God didn’t inspire every word in their Book, and we had to openly discuss what a loving God is like. Interpretations about God’s love toward others, that don’t match how you and most know you ought to love your neighbor, may be amiss. A Book must not replace our relationship with God and common moral sense.

Why Is It Best To Assume The Bible Isn’t Inspired By God?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Simple Acts of Kindness Can Make a Difference

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Community, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on October 26, 2023|

by Michael Donahoe

In a day when tempers seem to flare more often and people seem to be less kind to others, it does not take much to make a difference in the life of someone you meet.

We hear on the news and social media the acts of rage, discrimination, meanness, lack of respect and overall disregard for other human beings.

We have racial discrimination, exclusion of the LGBTQ family, gender discrimination, and on and on it goes. Yet underneath all the labels are human beings who are loved by God and are to be loved by us.

My feeling is, no matter what you think is right or wrong, whichever way you choose to live your life, there is no reason to treat others with judgment and condemnation and there is no reason to force your way of living on others. Being respectful, kind and accepting of others does not mean we always agree. We can treat others with kindness and as equals and still stick with our individual beliefs.

Being nice to people can change their attitude and outlook for the day. Giving others a smile, respect, doing a simple act of kindness can touch someone who is frustrated, depressed or just losing hope in the whole human race.

Rather than always being against someone or trying to force your views and way of life on others, put aside your personal beliefs when it comes to others and treat them with kindness and respect. To me that is following the example of Jesus and a way of encouraging a fellow human being who can then pass it along to others.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://personalmeanderings.substack.com/

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The Church and LGBTQ

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Lifestyles, Love of God, The church, tagged , , , , , , , on August 9, 2023|

by Jim Gordon

Unfortunately, we know many people have been treated wrong within the church system. Some more severe that others, but none of it is good.

I think one of the groups that seem to be affected most by this are those who are LGBTQ. I have seen this group of people treated rudely and like second class citizens in many churches where they should find love and acceptance more than anywhere else. God said to love our neighbors, he did not say to love only those with whom we agree.

Even in the churches that are actually welcoming, LGBTQ people are often not accepted and allowed to participate fully within the organization or hold certain positions. They are welcome to come in and sit and listen so hopefully the church can change them, but they are not welcome to come in and participate in any way within the church program.

Christian people will deny rights and services to LGBTQ people based on their Christian beliefs, unfortunately even including fellow Christians who are LGBTQ. Even government office holders can refuse certain services and basically get away with it because they say it goes against their Christian morals. As a Christian, I say these things should not be. This is nothing like the example of Jesus.

Labels are placed on many people, gay/straight, black/white, male/female, christian/atheist, American/foreign/immigrant. Yet behind those labels are human beings who were created in the image of God. They are loved and accepted by God and we are told as followers of Christ to be known for our love for one another.

I feel for those who are LGBTQ. It hurts to see people who were created and loved by God be rejected and abused by those who claim Christianity. I think it is time to look past the labels, look past personal feelings and accept people just the way they are, because they are created and loved by God.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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We Must Rethink The Bible When It Comes To Gays!

Posted in Acceptance of Others, Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , on August 6, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

I am going to focus briefly on the main issue as to why I think Christians must change how they view the Bible. There are many reasons. Women suffer violence because some claim the Bible says God wants women submissive to men in ways men are not similarly submissive to women. It doesn’t matter all men don’t take a mile when given an inch. Enough do! But perhaps even worse, Christian leaders condemn gays for being gay because the Bible supposedly does. I wish I had known 40 years ago what I know now!

It doesn’t matter even if you think God inspired the Bible!

It is natural to assume inspiration means God agreed with what the biblical writers claimed about God. If writers wrote God condemns gays according to the Bible, then Christians must do the same. I doubt God inspired everything written in the Bible about God, so the writers might be wrong about God. But even if you believe God inspired every word in the Bible and agrees with all written about God, not all biblical scholars interpret that Bible condemning monogamous gay relationships. See here. I understand condemning unfaithfulness according to the Bible, but we don’t need a book for such condemnation. But claiming God through the Bible condemns gays is subject to biblical interpretation. Your interpretation may be wrong, so stay openminded.

Being gay isn’t a choice!

Many Christians, worse leaders, are quick to judge in God’s name when one admits they are gay. Listen to the Podcast of one man’s journey: Blue Babies Pink by B.T. Harman. Hopefully, it will give you compassion as to the struggles growing up gay. We condemn stealing, murder, and gayness in the same breath. Stealing is a choice. Being gay is not a choice. Listen to their stories before judging. Stop with “love the sinner, hate the sin” speeches. It is impossible to feel loved and accepted when such words are used. Even if you believe the Bible condemns gays, do you tell someone overweight that “I love you but I hate your behaviors.” Look in the mirror for most of us. I’m not overweight but my belly fat is an issue. Anyway, most gays will tell you this is not a choice they have. This is who they are. Why would anyone choose a life of hostility and bigotry?

Please!

I am begging you to not condemn gays because the Bible supposedly does. Christian leaders – show some courage and change your stance. You may not agree with my interpretations, but I will admit my interpretation could be wrong if you will. Listen to each gay’s story and love them like you would want to be loved if you had the same journey. I believe if we at least stopped claiming certainty in God’s name regarding gays or women’ roles in marriage or in church, we would have more open conversations and reveal more the loving God we believe in.

Dear Reader: If you still think being gay is a choice and you must condemn gays in God’s name, I beg you to listen to Blue Babies Pink podcast episodes or if prefer more reading than audio see blog Blue Babies Pink

We Must Rethink The Bible When It Comes To Gays!

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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What Does God Consider Sin?

Posted in christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , on July 23, 2023|

By Mike Edwards

Jesus was asked what was the most important law by a religious-type (Mark 12:28-34). Religion-keepers try to stay in power by declaring their rules are God’s rules. Jesus simply said to love God and love others as yourself. Jesus wasn’t demanding belief in God as much as simply illustrating loving God is loving others like you want to be loved. Jesus wasn’t saying what hoops to jump through to be loved with God. Why then would Jesus suggest a law most of us fail often – loving others like we want to be loved? Jesus was encouraging a lifestyle to pursue with God’s help.

Sin is that which harms you or someone else

What does God desire the most from us? God only seeks what we deep down desires for ourselves – to love others as we wish to be loved. The question isn’t what rules does God demand to be in good-standing with God. In our circumstances we should ask “am I harming myself or am I harming others with my actions.” If it’s not good for you or others, then it is sin. God only wishes to steer us in the right direction.

It isn’t always easy knowing what the most loving action is

Disciples wanted Jesus to tell them when divorce was right and when divorce was wrong. Jesus didn’t give them a set of rules to go by. In relational difficulties we need to ask ourselves what is the most loving action in our circumstances. Sometimes, divorce may be best due to irreconcilable differences. It does take two to tango. The question isn’t if God opposes gays. If you had attractions to those of the same sex that you could no more control than those who have desires for the opposite sex, how would you want to be loved?

The same question applies whether to forgive someone. Many who have done great harm to others often don’t admit their guilt. Does forgiving such a person do the victim or the guilty any good. Again, the question is “what is the more loving action to take under the circumstances that will do the least harm to ourselves and others.” Easy forgiveness without admitting guilt can lead to others being victimized. See here.

What is a relationship with God like? 

God isn’t always looking to condemn you or catch you breaking some rule. God simply seeks to influence you to consider what is the most loving action to take for yourself and others. We can’t just open the Bible or any book and find which rule to keep. Biblical scholars who have a deep respect for Scriptures don’t agree what the Bible says about gays, women, and other issues. See here.  See here.  God didn’t create to simply be told how great they are. God created for the same reason parents want children. God is seeking someone to love, to be a friend, and God seeks to help us make a positive contribution in the world by being kind to others.  Just like any loving parent would!

What Does God Consider Sin?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

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Was Jesus a Christian? 

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , , , on January 25, 2023|

by Jim Gordon

Let’s just say this right off, Jesus was not a Christian. Also, Jesus was not white, nor American, nor a Republican. 

Here in the United States, when we think of Jesus we usually think of Christianity. Actually, Christianity is just another religion that men started based on Jesus. Jesus did not come to start a religion, yet in our modern era, Christianity is thought of as a religion more than it is a lifestyle of following Jesus. 

Jesus does not belong to any particular religion, nationality or political party. He loves and accepts people no matter what they believe, where they live, who they love, who they vote for or what they look like. He came to show the love of God to the human race which includes all people in every part of the world.

If we describe being Christian as a follower of the example of Jesus, then there is nothing wrong with using this word to describe our fellowship with Him. If we use the word Christian to describe belonging to a particular church, following a particular doctrine or set of rules or belonging to a particular political party, then we have totally missed what being a Christ-follower is all about. I would rather not have anything to do with the word Christian used in this sense. 

Jesus is the Son of God, and He loves all people. Jesus came to show us what God may really be like, a God of love and acceptance. A God that loves the entire world. God does not see Muslims, Jews, Christians or any religion. God loves people, all people, every nationality, every political party, every race, every man, woman and everyone who is LGBTQ. God sees people who need and want love and acceptance. The only way people are going to come to true fellowship with God is through Jesus…not Christianity. 

It is time we stop looking to organized religion as our way of becoming acceptable and pleasing to God. We need to look to the example of Jesus and allow the Spirit to live through us to love all those we meet each day. Stop demanding that people come to follow your doctrine, your rules, your beliefs and accept people as they are. Show the love of Christ to them and let the Spirit do the work of God in them as God sees fit. 

We are never going to completely agree with each other on doctrine and religion. Only through Christ and the love He gives will we be able to love and accept others. Let us be known by the true meaning of the word Christian, being someone who is doing the works of Jesus and following the example of Jesus by loving God and loving one another. 

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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Inclusion is Not a Bad Word

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Love of God, religion, The church, tagged , , , , , , , on December 20, 2022|

by Michael Donahoe

Have you noticed how many people seem to only include their preferred group? They only include people who think like them, have similar interests and likes. If you think differently or have different views and opinions, people feel you should stay in your own group with like-minded people, but leave the other group alone.

We seem to find this attitude in every walk of life, but within organized religion or institutional church it seems even worse. We all should be accepting of people in general in our daily lives. Yet, we see this so often within Christianity with the wide variety of denominations and interpretations of the Bible.

When it comes to including people who we see as completely different from us, African-American, Native-American, White, LGBTQ, Atheist, Muslim, Jew and so on, we tend to want to keep each group separate. We think as believers in God we need to separate ourselves and not associate with those who see things differently. Why is it the word inclusion seems to make so many Christian people cringe?

Really, behind all the labels we put on people we are all basically the same, so why not associate and get to know people who we feel are different from us? We can learn from one another, get to know one another and find that we really are not all that different.

We see Jesus do this all the time when reading the gospels in the Bible. He did not differentiate people based on their religion, belief, lifestyle, sexuality or nationality. He did not separate himself from those who thought, believed and lived differently. He loved and accepted all people and showed them the love of God.

Obviously loving and accepting people does not mean total agreement, nor are we going to always get along in life and live happily ever after. Yet I believe it does mean treating others the same, with respect, kindness, acceptance and with the love of God through the power of the Spirit within.

Inclusion is not a bad word. It is not a bad or unholy way to live. Inclusion is about ALL of us. Inclusion is about living full lives – about learning to live together. It makes the world our classroom for a full life. Inclusion treasures diversity and builds community. It is about our abilities – our gifts and how to share them. Inclusion is the way of God and the way of showing the love of God to all we meet.

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Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://myopinionblog.substack.com/

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Why the Hatred Towards LGBTQ

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , , on November 30, 2022|

by Michael Donahoe

As I was thinking about the terrible tragedy recently at Club Q, and the similar tragedy a few years ago at the Pulse Nigh Club, I wondered why such horrible treatment is directed toward those who are LGBTQ.

They are people who just want to be themselves, to be accepted, live a good life, find love and be successful. To me, that sure sounds like every other person in the world. Yet, because they find love or express their sexuality in different ways than others, they are targeted for hateful treatment. That is so sad, so wrong and so unChrist-like.

Unfortunately, such horrible treatment will only continue if hate speech continues from some of our political leaders, from some of our Christian leaders and if Christian Nationalism gets more power. What gets me the most is the hateful speech and treatment that comes from many who claim to follow Jesus. Christians are supposed to be known for their love of God and love of people. We do not always agree, but Jesus said to love one another. He never said to judge, condemn and treat others as less-than or as second-class citizens.

I do not understand why people will go to the extremes of hatred and exclusion against those who are LGBTQ. Even if you disagree or do not understand, why is it that you cannot be loving and kind toward fellow human beings?

If you choose to believe that being LGBTQ is a sin, that is your choice. But, even with that particular belief it gives no one the right to judge, condemn and hate them.

I personally believe that the few verses in the Bible that refer to this subject are often misunderstood. They may have been misinterpreted over the years by the men who were doing the translating due to the differences in the times and customs when the Bible was written, along with the many changes in words and meanings over the years. Of course, this does not necessarily mean the translations of the Bible are wrong, but there are certainly other views and interpretations that should be looked at before making up your mind on what is correct. I have read several books that shed light on some other interpretations of these questionable verses and I think it is a good idea to think about these views to help understand what the writers may have meant. The books referred to are listed for further study:

Clobber the Passages: Seven Deadly Verses by Mel White

UnClobber: Rethinking Our Misuse of the Bible on Homosexuality by Colby Martin

Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee

God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships by Matthew Vines

Is God A Gay Basher?: Memoirs of a Christian, gay affirming Lesbian by Jan Liebegott

The Children Are Free: Reexamining the Biblical Evidence on Same-sex Relationships by Jeff Miner

I also look at the example of Jesus and how he loved and accepted people, especially those the religious leaders condemned. Jesus did not tell us to judge and condemn people, but he said to love one another.

I believe those who are LGBTQ are normal human beings who were created by and loved by God and just want to live their lives like everyone else. Just like any other human being, whether you agree or not, we all deserve equal rights and to be treated with love and respect.

I will end with a link to an article I came across by Mark Sandlin which gives a few things to think about when it comes to treating those who are LGBTQ in a kind and loving way:

10 Anti-Gay Things You Can’t Do While Following Jesus

Michael Donahoe was added as a writer as his views fit perfectly with those of Done with Religion. He also writes on Substack at https://myopinionblog.substack.com/

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We All Think We Are Right

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , , on September 14, 2022|

And Everyone Else is Wrong

by Jim Gordon

If you are around a lot of people or are on social media very often, you will see many people are ready to argue in order to prove their way of thinking, especially in regard to spiritual matters.

Some atheists complain about Christians believing in a fairy in the sky, some people get mad over the transgender debate, gays are treated like second-class citizens and some of them are hateful toward Christians. Many Christians fight with other Christians over doctrine and some can be very judgmental and condemning of atheists and the LGBT community. It seems each group is trying to prove why they are right and the other group is wrong and many times they do it in ways that are not so nice.

Why do so many people spend so much time arguing and defending personal views when we cannot prove any of it? Seriously, none of us can prove beyond a doubt our thoughts and views on spiritual things or life after death. We cannot prove God exists and we cannot prove he does not exist. There are so many varying doctrines, interpretations of the bible and denominations among Christianity that it is not surprising we do not know who is right or wrong?

If we really think about it no matter what your religion, what your faith or belief, what your lifestyle, if you are atheist, Christian, gay, agnostic, transgender, if you have a scientific view or creationist view none of us can prove our way of thought in regard to spiritual matters. It is our personal view and it is good to have those views, but we should not be trying to prove our way and push it onto others expecting them to see things our way.

Each group is passionate about the way they see things and there is nothing wrong with that. The problem is expecting everyone to agree and go along with our way of thinking.

We are not all going to agree on things, yet we should be able to be accepting of others. Being accepting does not mean we always agree with one another or approve of everything people do, but we should be able to be kind and show respect to everyone even in our differences. Being judgmental, condemning, or poking fun at one another is certainly not being loving and kind.

It all boils down to no matter what route we take in life, what we think about life after death, what we think about God or spiritual life, none of us can prove our way of thinking, at least not until death. Once we die, if there is life after death and I believe there is, we will know for sure at that point. Until that time, we can only follow our way of thinking or believing and we should be respectful of others and the way they think.

Those of us who are followers of Jesus should especially be loving and kind because Christ told us to love God and love one another. He did not say we should only love those who believe like us. He did not say to be judgmental, condemning or to exclude anyone.

When reading about Jesus in the gospels we see a person who loved people and was accepting of everyone. He did not condemn nor judge and I believe he was God in human form showing us that God loves us all.

I believe God provides grace for everyone, but he gives us all freedom to choose what to believe and whether to accept it or not. I believe we should offer the same option to our fellow human beings no matter what label is put on them.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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Should I Call Myself A Christian?

Posted in Acceptance of Others, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , , on August 25, 2022|

by Jim Gordon

With all the changes happening in Christianity these days, such as Christian Nationalism, exclusion of those who are LGBTQ, seeing the separation of church and state slowly disappear, and those in the church seemingly becoming more hateful toward those who believe differently, my wife and I question whether we should still call ourselves Christian or not. Basically, it all boils down to what we mean by the word Christian.

If being a Christian is being part of a religion that meets in a building on a particular day and follows set doctrines based on what denomination we belong to, then no, we are not Christians.

If being a Christian is being part of a group that is opposed to all other religions and only accepts those who believe like we do, then no, we are not Christians.

If being a Christian has anything to do with excluding those who are LGBTQ, then no, we are not Christians.

If being a Christian has anything to do with treating women unequally, then no, we are not Christians.

If being a Christian has anything to do with discrimination and segregation, then no, we are not Christians.

Actions that do not show the love, acceptance and good works that Jesus showed while on earth are not part of a Christianity we want to be associated with.

In Acts 11:26, the disciples were first called Christians by people in Antioch. They were called Christians because they were acting like Christ. The people there were calling them little Christ’s because of the way they showed the love and power of Christ. Now, if that is what is meant by being a Christian, then we are all in.

There are many ways we can describe ourselves…believers, Christ followers, disciples of Christ, people of faith, Christians. Yet, the name itself does not really matter. What matters is how we live our lives. Is Christ preeminent? Are we living as one with him? Are we allowing the love of Christ to live through us, accepting others, loving others and being little Christ’s to all we meet? If not, being called a Christian means nothing, and may actually be damaging to others.

When people see us, they should see Christ. He lives within us by the Spirit. We really do not need to worry so much about the label we use. We are to be known by our actions that show the love of God and share that love with our fellow man each and every day.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

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