Feeds:
Posts
Comments

Posts Tagged ‘old testament’

Did You Know The Bible Says Nothing About Marriage?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , on May 26, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

There is no word for “husband” or “wife” in Hebrew (the older testament). There is also no word for marriage (pairing up) in Hebrew. The English Bible should more accurately use “to take” rather than using the word “marriage.” I will let you decide in a patriarchal society which gender is taking who. In the older testament, the man didn’t marry but took the women. Even the Greek (newer testament) didn’t have a word for husband or wife. We must be careful what we assume a biblical marriage is when biblical writers had no such concept of the marriage institution as we know it. Please see Jennifer Bird Marriage In The Bible for many of the insights below. 

In the Bible marriage was between two men

In the Bible marriage was typically a contract between two men – the father of the man and the father of the woman. A payment was often made by the father of the woman to the father of the man. In a patriarchal culture a woman was basically viewed as property – first to her father and then to the man given to by the father. Was this really God’s ideal?  I’m not a woman, but I doubt women want to go back to biblical pairings. The women in the Bible seem given to the man to have children and build his legacy. Men, if this is your cup of tea, you are reading the wrong blog! 

In the Bible marriage (pairing) often was not between just one man and one woman

It was a very common arrangement in the OT for men to have multiple women. Most are familiar with the stories of two supposed spiritual giants in the Old Testament – Kings David and Solomon. Who hasn’t heard David was a man after God’s own heart. Not always the God I know! Solomon had hundreds of women at his disposal. Polygamy was never condemned in the Bible. Do we really want to go back to biblical pairings? My wife would argue one man is enough of a cross/burden to carry!

In the Bible relationships weren’t based on mutual respect and love

We have laws in the Bible, supposedly advocated by God, where men were required to impregnate their brother’s woman if her man died. (Deut. 25:5) I don’t read where the woman has any say so in the matter, in case she didn’t want to have a child with her “brother-in-law.” My wife’s sisters probably feel the same way. Then in Deut. 22:13-21 God supposedly advocates a woman being forced to stay with a man who lied about her virginity. Again, the woman had no say so. Biblical relationships were hardly built on mutual respect and love. Times have changed hopefully?

Newer Testament didn’t exactly advocate for more women rights

It doesn’t seem much changed from OT times to when Jesus lived. When Jesus advised that a man could only divorce a woman for adulterous reasons, the disciples said “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” (Mt. 19:9-10) They seemed to think marriage is about men’s rights. Also, though Jesus didn’t exactly say so, you mean to tell me Jesus didn’t think women could divorce for the same reason? This passage has multiple interpretations, so we are free to speculate what an ideal marriage is in God’s eyes.

What about gay marriages?

If the Bible doesn’t speak about heterosexual marriages based on mutual and respect, it can’t possibly report on gay relationships based on mutual respect and love. We Must Rethink The Bible When It Comes To Gays!

What kind of marriage does God want? 

Personally, I don’t want anything to do with biblical pairings (marriages). And biblical marriages didn’t happen in churches administered by a preacher-type. Do my partner and I need a redo to have a godly marriage? I admit I can’t read God’s mind, but I know how I ought to treat others especially women. I don’t want any father telling a woman who she must marry for money. I certainly don’t want my parents telling me who to marry. They struck out. I have been married 41 years with three great kids. Turns out she is the saint, not their beloved son. Read the Bible for possible wisdom, but seek to have a godly marriage instead of a biblical marriage.

Did You Know The Bible Says Nothing About Marriage?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

 

Read Full Post »

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

Posted in Acceptance, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , , on May 12, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

You may not want to read this Post if you never question or doubt if God is real, if everything the Bible claims about God is true, and you are convinced hell or heaven is a certainty. For some though it is normal to struggle to believe in an invisible God, to wonder if Jesus really resurrected from the dead since they weren’t there. No one can prove if there is really an afterlife after death. God never informed Old Testament writers of such a place. See here. Some may have questions after hearing different opinions in biblical scholarship. Many didn’t grow up with religious teaching and so rightly wonder claims made by religious folks. Is there a reason to follow God with so many doubts or questions?

What if I am not sure the stories of Jesus resurrected from the dead are true?

I currently am convinced Jesus’ resurrection isn’t legend and has historical verification, but others may not. I don’t believe God hates me if I change my mind. Jesus’ disciples didn’t believe Jesus was coming back from the dead, despite witnessing Jesus’ miracles beforehand, until seeking Jesus after his death with their own eyes. I would like to think many of us seeing a man or woman coming back from the grave, after killed on a cross, would be convinced.  I have a hunch God cares the most that you believe in the possibility of a loving God to begin a faith journey.

Who was Jesus really?

One may read, if not reading only conservative Christian viewpoints, that the Jesus’ sayings for accuracy in the Gospels has many problems. After all, the biblical writers wrote 40 years later what Jesus supposedly said through oral traditions handed down. You should read what my kids claim I said decades ago! Maybe it doesn’t matter if the biblical writers 40 years later recorded Jesus’ words exactly. Today, we take things so literally. Maybe back in NT times, they were writing not for historical accuracy but weaving a story about what they thought Jesus was trying to teach (the meaning behind the text).

Does the Bible always get God right?

Ever read the Bible closely. Claims made about God don’t seem like a loving God. Leaders tout that God inspired/approved all written in the Bible, yet some actions contributed to God by the writers make no moral sense. Unfortunately, newcomers will be directed to read the Bible and be horrified reading about some of God’s supposed actions. Rationalizations are given to explain such actions about God to protect God’s inspiration of the Bible (writers understood God perfectly). I suggest instead considering if biblical writers always understood God correctly.  See here.

Is following God worth it with so many questions?

I am convinced living a godly life is worth it, even if God doesn’t exist. Go ahead and live like Hell while here on earth! You may have fun but your loved ones won’t. God only wants to help pursuing a life not full of regrets. Personally, following what I believe a loving God to be like has inspired and encouraged me to be the person I desire to be. The journey is worth it. Most are convinced Jesus was a very real person who lived in the first century. Let’s debate his teachings. We are often told the main message of the Bible is Jesus coming to save you from Hell. I am convinced Jesus spoke of loving God not to get into heaven but to receive help in loving others as you love yourself here on earth. What do we have to lose treating one another like we want to be treated?

Can I Still Be In With God If Doubt God, Jesus, The Bible, Afterlife?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Read Full Post »

Are Biblical Stories Helpful or Harmful To Children?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , on February 11, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Most are familiar with Bible stories including David and Goliath and Jonah shallowed by a whale. What motivated me to write this post was becoming even more aware of disturbing divine behaviors in the older testament.  See here.  You may not want to advise your children to read the entire Older Testament. Stay with me until we get to below stories of Noah/Flood and Jonah.

Don’t read these Bible passages to children!

We have every right to question if biblical writers/editors always understood God perfectly. There are many disturbing portrayals of God in the Bible. Exodus 20:1 says God spoke: “anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death” (Ex 21:17).  I would be dead! God didn’t dictate words to the writers. “God said” is recording hundreds of times in the Bible. This is likely a figure of speech expressing inner impressions or understandings about God written down – right or wrong.

God supposedly even commanded the genocide of all Amalekites, including women, children, infants, and animals (I Sam 15:2-3). God kills Uzzah for putting his hand out to balance the Ark from falling (2 Sam 6:7), yet God is silent when Mighty King David committed adultery and had Bathsheba’s husband killed (2 Sam 11:14). You better hope God is having a good day!

Did God control the thoughts of biblical writers?

You can’t prove and it’s doubtful a loving God controlled the mental impressions of writers’ words recorded. Controlling love is an oxymoron. God doesn’t control our world views. The Israelites thought God controlled the natural world causing famines to punish or giving victory or defeat in battle. Today most don’t think God causes tsunamis and other natural disasters. Jesus didn’t blame tragedies by God as rewarding the righteous and punishing the unfaithful (Lk 13:1-5). So, we are okay to question if certain stories accurately portray God. It is not heresy to challenge if the writers’ understandings of God are contradictory of a loving God according to our moral intuitions. We were surely created to love the way the Creator loves.

Noah, the Flood, and God drowning practically the entire human race 

I admit I love David kicking bully Goliath’s ass. But you may wonder why God drowned the entire human race except Noah and family, including children and infants (Gen. 7:23). Keep in mind Genesis talks about a magical tree of good and evil and talking snakes. A Global Flood could be a literary device to illustrate the destructiveness of human versus God’s ways. Maybe the writers used an analogy of a Flood and drowning because their world view including God controlling the natural world. I might not read the Flood story to young children but wait to explain the above that maybe God didn’t really drown practically the entire human race. Personally, I wouldn’t use a drowning analogy to portray God’s character. 

Did a whale really swallow Jonah? 

I suppose most kids won’t avoid water or the ocean when reading this story. Nevertheless, how might you explain such a story to younger children if they ask. Certain evidence suggests Jonah wasn’t really shallowed by a whale. The gullet of a whale is too small to swallow an adult. The gastric juices and lack of oxygen would not sustain human life for days such as Jonah writing a poem while inside the whale (Eric Seibert ). Ninevah was a real city but this story maybe wasn’t meant to be taken literally. Read the full story. It may be trying to illustrate God had a right to show compassion. Jonah’s enthusiasm for the destruction of his enemies was misguided.

So, how do I read the Older Testament to my children?

It’s understandable choosing to not share many of the Bible stories with children. Young children aren’t always equipped to understand when stories aren’t meant to be taken literally. The Bible is God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in any other document. God may have inspired the writers to write but didn’t necessarily approve of everything written about God. When reading the Bible, question and contemplate what a loving God is really like. Enjoy what God is trying to reveal to you about your Creator and how to treat others. Interpretations about God’s love toward others, that don’t match how you know you ought to love your neighbor, may be amiss. A Book must not replace our relationship with God and common moral sense.

Are Biblical Stories Helpful Or Harmful To Children?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Read Full Post »

6 Reasons Old Testament Portrayals Of God As Genocidal And Violent Are False!

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , , on February 4, 2024|

By Mike Edwards

Biblical passages portray God as sanctioning genocide or drowning practically an entire human race including children and infant. Many form their view of God according to the Bible. Our views of God impact the way we imitate or relate to God. I will site much of Eric Seibert scholarship, who has written a mind-blowing book on disturbing divine behaviors in the OT. God seems so unlike the God that Jesus portrayed. When we read “God said” in the Bible, did the writers record what God actually said aloud or what they believed God would say? We must question if there are differences between biblical portrayals of God and God’s true character.

We can’t prove God approved of the biblical writers’ thoughts about God

Few believe God dictated the writers’ recordings. You certainly can’t prove God controlled the writers’ thoughts that were written down. We can’t prove the writers understood God perfectly other than taking their word by claiming they are inspired by God (2 Tim 3:16-17). That is circular reasoning. The truth is we don’t know God’s role. We were surely created to love the way the Creator loves. We must challenge if the writers’ thoughts or our interpretations are contradictory of a loving God according to our moral intuitions.

Controlling love is an oxymoron. A loving God can no more control than they can manipulate. God obviously doesn’t control one’s actions or thoughts with so much evil in the world contrary to God’s desires. And if God can raise the dead, God can obviously control transmissions of words supposedly given to the biblical writers – but God didn’t! We don’t have the original manuscripts but copies of copies of the original. The NT is gathered from over 5000 manuscripts. Over time the variations became more substantial. The Catholic Bible has more books than the Protestant Bible. Which books did God supposedly inspire (pp. 267-268)? Maybe God wasn’t in control of what was written or transmitted.

The first reasons to doubt OT portrayals is a moral God can’t command horrific evils 

Many may not realize there are hundreds of passages in the OT that speak of God taking revenge or threatening destruction or punishment by death including genocide of an entire nation. Please see Eric Seibert. I will cite only a few instances that require explanation. God commanded the genocide of all Amalekites, including women, children, infants, and animals (I Sam 15:2-3). God ends up killing over 70,000 people for David taking a census that was authorized by God (2 Sam 24:15). God drowned the entire human race except Noah and family, including children and infants (Gen. 7:23). God causes or at least permits dozens of people to die to simply win a divine wager with Satan (Job). Such actions are highly questionable of a loving God.

A moral God couldn’t possibly have authorized many of the Israelite laws

When it comes to many of the laws, the OT claims God spoke these words (Exodus 20:1). Biblical writers rarely claimed audible God-speak. “God said” recorded hundreds of times in the Bible is most likely a figure of speech expressing inner impressions or understandings about God – right or wrong. Anyway, did God really authorize the following laws (pp. 17-18):

  • Did God really mandate whoever curses their parents be put to death (Ex. 21:17)?
  • Did God really mandate to death a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath (Num 15:32-36)?
  • Did God really require death for adultery (Lev 20:10)? They would be lot of bodies today
  • Did God really command whoever does work on the Sabbath be put to death (Ex 31:15)?
  • Did God really command death for those who blaspheme the name of the Lord (Lev 24:16)?

A moral God can’t control one’s worldview 

God can’t control the worldviews of the writers either. The Israelites though God controlled the natural world such as causing famines to punish. It was thought God gave victory or defeat in battle. Today we don’t think that way, that God was the direct cause of planes flying into building on 9/11. Most don’t blame tsunamis and other natural disasters on God. Jesus didn’t blame tragedies by God as rewarding the righteous and punishing the unfaithful (Lk 13:1-5). Biblical writers were likely trying to explain the unexplainable. Even today, many claim “everything happens for a reason” as if God is in control.

Archaeological findings don’t always support OT historical events reported 

Seibert points out that assuming OT historical narratives were written to record what actually happened is a modern but not past historiographic assumption (p.105). Archaeological evidence doesn’t suggest the wall of Jericho miraculously crumbling down, and Jericho was completely destroyed by the Israelites despite the Bible claiming so (Joshua 6:20, 24). So, it is possible the violence contributed to God in these passages (Joshua 6-11) might not have happened as well. OT narratives were often written decades if not centuries later when the supposed events happened.

Was Jonah really shallowed by a whale? Certain evidence suggests otherwise. The gullet of a whale is too small to swallow an adult. The gastric juices and lack of oxygen would not sustain human life for days such as Jonah writing a poem while inside the whale (p.95). Jonah walked through Ninevah requiring 3 days (Jonah 3:3). Archaeology has discovered Ninevah to be 7.5 miles in diameter. Walking end to end could have been done in less than half a day. Ninevah was a real city but this story wasn’t meant to be taken literally. The story illustrates God had a right to show compassion. Our enthusiasm for the destruction of enemies is misguided. 

A moral God can’t apply justice unfairly 

God kills Uzzah for putting his hand out to balance the Ark from falling (S Sam 6:7), yet God is silent when David committed adultery and had Bathsheba’s husband killed (2 Sam 11:14).

God is so unlike the God Jesus portrays in the NT 

Jesus said: “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (Jn 14:9). Jesus referring to stories in the OT doesn’t mean he approved of all views expressed about God. Jesus never referred to passages that speak of God commanding genocide or a warrior who fights physical battles for his chosen. (pp.191-207). Jesus referred to the global flood but didn’t identify God as the cause of the Flood as the OT does. Jesus instead often refers to a God who is kind to the wicked. Jesus was so unlike the God of the OT that perhaps God was not like how often portrayed by OT writers.

Why should I bother to read the OT? 

The Bible is God’s story beginning with Israel and culminating with the life of Jesus that we don’t possess in any other document. God may have inspired the writers to write but didn’t necessarily approve of everything written about God. When reading the Bible, question and contemplate what a loving God is really like. Enjoy what God is trying to reveal to you about your Creator and how to treat others. Imagine if extremists had to consider that God didn’t inspire every word in their Book, and we had to openly discuss what a loving God is like. Interpretations about God’s love toward others, that don’t match how you and most know you ought to love your neighbor, may be amiss. A Book must not replace our relationship with God and common moral sense.

https://6 Reasons Old Testament Portrayals Of God As Genocidal And Violent Are False!

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. He couldn’t find enough people to discuss God openly so he started blogging years ago. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Read Full Post »

Was God As Violent As Old Testament Claims?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Love of God, religion, tagged , , , , , , on November 20, 2022|

By Mike Edwards

God commanding violence in the Old Testament makes no sense in light of New Testament emphasize on non-violence. Check out I Sam. 15:3 where God says: “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them: put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” Many OT passages advocate violence in God’s name.  If you don’t think this is morally shocking to many, think how you would react if you read this same command in the Koran. How do scholars justify these commands by God in a book God supposedly inspired thus seemingly approved how God is depicted?

Bible inspired view #1

Many scholars may hold on the idea that God inspired the Bible because if not inspired we can’t know then what God is truly like. Those who suggest God approved or agreed with every word declared about God defend violent passages in several ways:

  • God is God, these are special circumstances, so God at times may make commands that seem contrary to human moral intuitions. The Bible advises we should imitate God but how can we do that if God’s actions seem evil at times? Are we to imitate those actions?
  • Warfare rhetoric was common in ancient literature to induce fear and victory. But, even if God wasn’t meant to be taken literally, why would God inspire violent metaphors to specifically include women, children, infants, and animals? Even human leaders don’t use such rhetoric.

Bible inspired view #2

Some scholars suggest that God inspired/influenced the Bible, but sometimes God allowed the writers to get God wrong to contrast with Jesus’ teaching about God. But “inspired imperfection” leads to guessing what passages are true views of God and which ones are not. Even if you believe in “inspired perfection,” you still must interpret if the language is warfare rhetoric or exactly what God meant to be carried out. Using our moral intuitions in deciding what God is like and would do is unavoidable.

An uninspired view of the Bible may be a better option

I think most would assume God approved what the writers penned if God inspired or influence such a thought. God either controlled the writers’ thoughts and writings to perfectly represent God, or God did not control writers reporting their views of God even if false portrayals. Writers/editors of the Bible didn’t intentionally lie but were honest about their understandings of God at the time. This may explain violence wrongly contributed to God. I doubt God inspired any writings contributing acts of violence to God in the OT. 

Why it matters?

People read the OT and since it contradicts their intuitions of a loving God, they tune out God. Who blames them! How do you follow One you don’t respect? Also, the Bible says: “Follow God’s example…” (Eph. 5:1). We know evil people are looking for an excuse for violence; good people may be trying to be obedient to God and sincerely believe their circumstances may warrant what God commanded in OT times. After all, God inspired such views. We might know God better if we assume the Bible isn’t inspired. One cannot avoid using their moral intuitions when it comes to interpretation or statements made about God in the OT. Do you have a hard time believing the OT’s God at times? I got a hunch you are right! Don’t leave your moral brain at the door!

Was God As Violent As Old Testament Claims?

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Read Full Post »

Could Our Claims About God Turn People Off?

Posted in Acceptance, Bible, christian living, institutional church, Love of God, tagged , , , , , , , , , on May 30, 2021|

by Mike Edwards

I don’t write to push God on others. I am convinced God is big enough to make their own case with those seeking more of a connection with their Creator. I just know God has made me a better husband, father, and friend by their influence. I enjoy discussing my journey with those so inclined. Even if it turns out God doesn’t exist, what have I lost by living a life with fewer regrets.

One might argue the biggest obstacle Christians put in the way of others interested in pursuing God is hypocrisy. If you treat people like dirt, I doubt you are being influenced by the God I know. Most folks though understand no one is perfect. But if Christians fail to admit or confess their faults, good luck discussing your relationship with God with others.

Claims I consider false, made by Christians about God, may be the greatest problem. It is said:

  • Evolution can’t be true and God couldn’t have used evolution in the creative process
  • Women can’t be pastors or priests and wives should be more submissive to husbands than husbands should be to their wives
  • God condemns gays who are naturally attracted to those of their same sex and God forbid they get married
  • God is going to burn in hell forever those who deny God here on earth Most humans wouldn’t even justify such torture for their worst enemies. To Hell with those who grew up in a family of another religion that believed in the golden rule
  • God before creation elected some to be God’s children and the rest can freely go to Hell
  • God can control evil, despite creating freedom, thus in reality God controls how much each suffers
  • God can magically answer your prayers and if God doesn’t, you must have some hidden sin or not praying the right words
  • God can tell you to love your enemies but supposedly God can command the killing of women and children as in the Old Testament. Maybe the writers didn’t understand God fully at the time
  • If you are an atheist or not all-in about God, you are simply being rebellious to justify living selfishly
  • You don’t really love God if you don’t attend the institutional church on a regular basis

It is claimed the Bible is all about avoiding Hell rather than God desiring to have a relationship with you here on earth to face challenges inevitable in an imperfect world.

Do you doubt any of the above claims? Most if not all of the above beliefs come from one’s understanding of a Book. It is seldom admitted Christians disagree in good conscience about the above claims in the Bible about God.

Besides, many act as if it can be proven that God controlled or approved all that is claimed about God in the Bible, that God somehow magically download their thoughts and words into the writer’s brain.

Do you wish you could get more into God but certain claims are a problem? Don’t believe everything you hear. God surely gave us a brain and moral conscience to decide evil from good. If God is evil in any way, that is a God not worth believing in!

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

Read Full Post »

When Did the New Covenant Begin?

Posted in Bible, christian living, Jesus follower, Love of God, New Covenant, The church, Word of God, tagged , , , , , , , on May 19, 2021|

by Jim Gordon

For those of us who grew up in the church, most understand the difference between the Old and New Testament. Yet we seem to be confused over the new testament and the new covenant.

Many of us believe the new covenant began with the book of Matthew. The fact of the matter is, there is a big difference between the New Testament of the Bible and the New Covenant.

The Old Testament talks a lot about life before Jesus came to live on earth. It contains the Old Covenant Law God made with the Jewish people. This Old Covenant continues beyond the Old Testament of the Bible and into the New Testament.

What many people are not taught is that the New Testament is not entirely the New Covenant. Jesus taught for thirty-three years under the Old Covenant Law. His sermon on the mount and the beatitudes showed the impossibility of completely keeping the old covenant law, and it showed the authority Jesus had over the law.

When Jesus died, the old covenant was fulfilled and came to an end. When Jesus arose, a new covenant began which restored fellowship between God and the human race. This new covenant was no longer based on laws and rules, but it was freely given to us through grace.

The problem now that the new covenant is in effect is that many of us want to continue to live by the old covenant law and mix it with new covenant grace. The fact is we no longer live by the old covenant law. We no longer have to worry about the 10 commandments or the 603 other laws that were given to the Jewish people. Does that mean we can now live as we please and do whatever we want? Well, we can but it is not in our best interest to do so.

We now live by love through the grace of God. When we truly love God, there are no rules or laws that we need to keep to make things better. We love God, therefore we want to do what pleases God. It is a life of freedom, not to do anything we want but freedom to love and have fellowship with God apart from any rules and regulations on how to do so.

Jim Gordon and his wife left the institutional church after spending over fifty years within the system. Jim wanted a way to express his thoughts and concerns about the religious system and why he and his wife decided to leave the institution but not their faith in God. Jim can be contacted by email at: jimgordon731@gmail.com

Read Full Post »

Is God More Mysterious Or Knowable?

Posted in Bible, christian living, tagged , , , on February 22, 2021|

by Mike Edwards

I used the word “more” in the title of this blog because it seems obvious that we can’t totally understand an invisible or inaudible Being. It does seem intuitive that a God who creates freedom does so to have authentic relationships. Relationships dominated by mystery are difficult to have. Christians claim God communicates via the Holy Spirit. Would such a Spirit speak in a foreign or understandable language?

How would a Creator communicate?

Universal moral outrage and agreement on the golden rule hints of a Creator’s influence through our moral intuitions. Criminals don’t defend but deny their actions. The Bible challenges: “Be perfect, therefore as your heavenly Parent is perfect” (Mt. 5:48). Perfect human love and God’s love are the same. We don’t always know what perfect love entails, but we know the question we ought to ask ourselves – am I loving others perfectly as our Creator loves us.

Does the Old Testament really declare God a mystery? 

The notion of a relational seeking God being mysterious, and not revealing, may only come from a Book. We aren’t as knowledgeable as God who is in all places at all times, but that doesn’t make God unknowable. Isaiah 55:8-9 is the most common passage to claim that God sometimes is a mystery: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways…” This passage isn’t suggesting we can’t understand God. The context suggests God exhorts us to forsake wicked ways (v.7) and turn to God’s higher, righteous ways (vs. 8-9). I know how to go low or high!

Does the New Testament really declare God a mystery?

Jesus didn’t speak in parables to purposely hide His message. Nathan had more success confronting David indirectly with a parable (2 Sam 12). God’s truth is perplexing often to one’s heart not the mind. The “mystery of Christ” mentioned in the NT only reveals that God’s plan to bless all through Israel by way of Christ wasn’t fully revealed until after OT times. Paul says: “My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Col 2: 3-4). 

Assuming God is mysterious may only come from one’s understanding of a Book about God.

Biblical interpreters play the mystery card when their understanding suggests God’s morals are not the same as human morals. Isn’t this because we all have an inborn intuition that God and human perfect love are the same? Language breaks down if we say God’s evil sometimes is mysteriously good. If God is evil sometimes humanly speaking, are we supposed to hate God? If God isn’t understandable, why does the Bible ask us to imitate God (Eph. 5:1)?   

Why your view of God matters!

Our understanding of God can determine the depth of our relationship with God and how we might treat others. If God really created Hell, we may think we should emulate God in our attempts to judge and punish. If we believe God is really warlike, we may justify our actions in war when we shouldn’t. If God condemns gays, we will condemn gays out of devotion to God. If we believe God thinks men have authority over women in some positions, that will filter down to your wives, daughters, and friends and stifle their gifts. Imagine what you believe a perfect God is like in your life and the lives of others you interact with. You may be right!

MikeEdwardsprofilepic125

Mike Edwards has been writing for Done with Religion for some time and has been a great addition to the site. Mike also has his own site where he writes that can be found at What God May Really Be Like  He can be contacted by email at: medwar2@gmail.com

 

Read Full Post »

God, Do You Punish Or Are Our Actions Their Own Punishment?

Posted in Bible, christian living, tagged , , , on May 25, 2020| 4 Comments »

By Mike Edwards

God isn’t nearly as active in punishing in the New Testament as in the Old Testament. One explanation is that OT writers believed, thus wrote, it was sacrilegious to not express God(s) as all powerful and controlling. A God of freedom doesn’t control our cognitions. NT writers seemed influenced by Jesus’ example. Is God waiting to zap you if making a wrong move, or do our actions have their own destructive consequences? Selfish people often don’t have many friends!

Old Testament views of God’s wrath.

The OT is a bit schizophrenic when describing God and punishment. Ancient literature predating Genesis wrote about local floods in their lands. It is not fabrication if biblical writers used a local flood to illustrate global human problems. This was a common literary practice in Ancient Near East times. But there is no denying God is described as actively destroying than letting evil run its course in the Flood story. God in the OT is said to actively punish the Israelites and their enemies.

The Book of Job can be interpreted to paint a different picture. The moral of the story is that good and evil people suffer in this world. God doesn’t control who is punished and who isn’t punished for their deeds. Job is described as blameless and righteous (1:1) and doesn’t escape suffering. God isn’t portrayed as the bringer of pain, controlling when evil or good folks such as Job suffer.

In the New Testament God seems to respond differently to rebellion.  

The New Testament says the wages of sin is death (Rm. 6:23). This seems to say sin has its own punishment which eventually leads to death, not that God is going around killing people or choosing when people die. How do we explain passages such as Romans 1:24: “Therefore, God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts ….” Our sins often lead to negative consequences when abandoning God’s ways. Jesus was sacrificed on the Cross and God didn’t punish the guilty. The reward for many believing in Jesus was martyrdom.

A punitive God suggests God is arbitrary. 

No one thinks a loving God plays favorites. Those who suggest God actively punishes reveal an arbitrary God. If God does actively punish and carry out wrath, God is letting a whole lot of evil in the world slide. An arbitrary, punitive God suggests God’s grace is not universal. Christians would admonish one another in Christ if mercy or discipline was exercised in such a fashion. God doesn’t love those spared more than those supposedly punished. 

What is God like?  

The only way to understand God’s love is to compare to human love. We all sense what perfect parental love is, even if we did not always experience it. God surely treats rebellion how we think loving, perfect friends or parents of older children ought to respond to wrongdoing. We hate what sin is doing but we don’t seek to pile on. We warn and don’t interfere with consequences, yet we don’t arbitrarily destroy. We hope for change before it is too late. God’s love, mercy, and encouragement, not God’s need for punishment, leads to becoming the person we desire to be.

Read Full Post »

God, Are You Really As Violent As Claimed In The Old Testament?

Posted in Bible, christian living, tagged , , , , on May 4, 2020|

By Mike Edwards

The amount of violence recorded as commanded by God is undeniable such as ordering the death of women, children, infants and animals in war (I Sam. 15:3). Many assume a Book supposedly inspired by God means God approved what was written about God. Who is to say the writers weren’t on the same spiritual journey we all are on – discovering what God is really like! Violent views of God can often lead to justifying wars and killing infidels in God’s name.

It is best to admit we can’t prove God inspired (aka approved) all recorded in the Bible.

Let’s be honest. We can’t prove God took over the biblical writers’ minds to control what’s written. Writers rarely claimed audible God-speak. “God said” written hundreds of times could be a figure of speech expressing an inner impression about God – right or wrong. Writers/editors of the Bible didn’t intentionally lie but were honest about their understandings of God at the time. This may explain violence wrongly contributed to God. I think best to not use the word “inspired” as most associate that with God agreeing with every thought or belief the writers had about God.

Did God approve certain violence to bring the Israelites freely along to the truth?

It is argued Israel’s laws were a step up from other ancient near eastern laws. At times maybe they were, but it is rational to question many laws set forth. God surely didn’t approve a woman being required to marry her rapist (Deut. 22: 28-29) or killing boys and non-virgins but sparing virgins for the warriors (Num. 31:18). Did God accommodate because the Israelites couldn’t handle the truth that requiring a woman to marry their rapist or family murderer is further victimization? I doubt it!

Is violence by God simply warfare exaggeration or hyperbole?  

Warfare rhetoric was common in ancient literature to induce fear and victory. But, even if God didn’t mean to be taken literally, why would God inspire violent metaphors like I Sam. 15 to include women, children, infants, and animals? Imperfect, human leaders don’t even use such language. I question if the writers heard God correctly to command such language even metaphorically.

Maybe the violence commanded by God didn’t take place?

Archaeology can suggest biblical events never happened and were recorded centuries later to convey spiritual truths. The creation account in Genesis may not be an actual historical event. It is also pointed out many of the genocide-like commands supposedly from God were not carried out as survivors are listed later in the story. Maybe extermination passages are meant to be understood within the context of initially driving out the enemy. The problem though is that God supposedly said these violent commands – not if commands were obeyed, didn’t take place, or were hyperbole.

Is violence explained because God can do whatever the Hell God wants?  

It is normal to feel compelled to justify passages above because God’s actions in the OT aren’t always moral from a human perspective. So, it is suggested God’s ways don’t have to be fair because God is God. Yet, the Bible encourages us to be perfect like God or imitate God (Mt. 5:48, Eph. 5:1). If human and God’s morals are different, how can we know how to be perfect like God? We don’t always know what perfect love is, but I doubt God is the parent that says “do as I say not what I do.” God’s morals are not some mystery. God’s good isn’t sometimes evil.

Objections when claiming the Bible doesn’t always depict God perfectly.  

  • We can’t know God if we can’t trust the Bible. See here.
  • God wouldn’t allow so much uncertainty. See here.

 God’s uncontrolling rather than controlling love can explain much of the OT.

Many practices in the OT such as animal sacrifices and other behaviors supposedly desired and commanded by God were humans’ understanding of God during those times. God’s love never controls one’s beliefs but seeks to influence for good. Freedom is necessary for authentic, lasting relationships. I have no doubt that the Bible has God’s blessing. So much wisdom has been gained by reading and reflecting. But, God never intended a Book to not be questioned or to take the place of a relationship with God and others. God seeks to influence so we might make choices in the interest of ourselves and others in the long-run.

Read Full Post »

Older Posts »